Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]

[Vigilant]

You said that you wanted ERU/SWAT and that was what you really wanted to do.

Now, most Officers aren‘t desk jockeys, but they don‘t get to do as much of the training and other fun stuff of the NCMs.

If I was hiring you for the job I would care more about the years of training and the type of training you had. If you were a Master Corporal who had trained to JTF2 PT levels I would be more impressed than if you were a Captain.

I would recommend going NCM and seeing how you like it, as Officers have to go through a crap load of paperwork all the time. IF you think you might like it later you can always get CFR, but not the other way down.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Just to play devil‘s advocate, you say you‘d accept a MCpl with JTF-2 level fitness, but not a captain. What if that captain was in an infantry unit and had accumulated experience as a range officer for all the unit‘s weapons and was qualified to design and conduct field firing ranges. There are a wide variety of skills and varying levels of experience between the officers and NCOs in an infantry unit (Reg or PRes), and each may have applicability to the original poster‘s interests in the ‘fit‘ to tactical team employment.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike

 

[gate_guard]

My advice? If your number one priority is policing, then do that and THEN figure out if you have the time and commitment to join the militia.
But don‘t become a cop assuming that you‘ll be able to parade and attend ex‘s regularly. As far as gaining extra "tactical" knowledge, the infantry isn‘t the best place for that. Let‘s put it this way, the number one priority of the police is to save lives (including the ERT/SWAT team). The number one priority of the infantry is to take lives. This results in a major difference of sop‘s and tactics.

As far as NCM vs Officer, go NCM first.

 

[Ruthless4Life]

For experience, NCM usually get more. But who knows, maybe the rank of a CO could help too. I think it depends what the police force prefers.

 

[babicma]

So..

Do you guys think that the training I will recieve with the RHLI in basic will help me over the years in going ERU????

 

[babicma]

Sorry.. Not just in basic but OVERALL training over the YEARS???

 

[humint]

You definitely get more hands-on as an NCM than as an Officer. However, like the mil, no police force would expect you to come into a tactical role already with bags of tac exp and weapons training. They will train you from zero, just like the mil does.

Why the RHLI over the Argylls?

By the way, there are many police officers and emergency responders as both NCMs and Officers in the Argylls, and they can manage both. I don‘t see why you won‘t be able to.

 

[babicma]

humint thanks alot!

To answer the question RHLI over Argylls:

1. I was first in touch with the RHLI recruiter

2. Im not really crazy about wearing a kilt, not that I have anything against it

I totally agree with you about the training the police will give, its just that I would like to get some experience with weapons and hopefully FIBUA with the reserves. Also when I come to applying to the ERU after I put my time in as a COP I would like my resume/experience to read better than somebody who has only handled the Glock and shotgun while being a COP.

Another thing I would love to talk to some guys who are on Hamilton Service (either COPS or Emergency) and are with the RHLI or the Argylls so if you can give me some advice on that I would be more than greatfull.

Thanks for the support humint, im getting more and more pros for going to the reserves before I go to OPC (thats if I get hired! hehe)

Cheers!!

 

[babicma]

Just wanna try out my new avatar!

 

[babicma]

Hopefully works this time sorry for going off topic. Still need more advice!

Thanks to all!

 

[humint]

True, we are Scottish. But, the whole kilt wearing thing happens so infrequently that it never really becomes an issue -- even for the non-Scots in our unit.

Drop by the ASH recruiting office on a Wed night and I‘ll intro you to a few police and emergency officers/responders in the regiment.

Hopefully, we‘ll have a Fibua site set-up in the near future (not sure if the RHLI will be allowed to us it, but we may make an exception if you ask real nice). You‘ll definitely get a lot of hands-on with mountain warefare and urban ops as our entire Brigade group has been given that task. Plus, the NBC training will also help.

Are you going through the police recruitment process right now? If so, at what stage are you and what departments?

There‘s a weekend BMQ course starting in Jan, so if you get on that, you will be able to get basic out of the way by April -- therefore cutting down on the likelihood that you will have a conflict between police/army training.

In the big picture, you CAN do both. As a police officer, you will have some conflicts because of your 12 hour rotating shifts (man, I hate those). So, you may miss the odd parade night or weekend ex, but it shouldn‘t be that bad. Like many of us, you‘ll have to use your holidays to do mil extended training. And, as a police officer, you‘ll be able to rack up a lot of overtime, which you can take as time off, this freeing up time for training/tasking, etc.

Plus, most of the training is now in weekend or module form (2 week blocks), so it‘s getting easier for us regular workin‘ folk to do the necessary training.

 

[babicma]

Thanks humint I‘ll most likely make it to Wed night for the training night of the Argylls.

Thanks for the invite I‘d love to talk to some guys who do both police and reserves especially ERU members.

My objective is to join whichever regiment RHLI OR the Argylls, I want the one that will give me the best training and the RHLI recriuter didnt tell me anything about ERU guys with the Rileys! So, Id rather train with the Argylls if I can be around the right training and the right people! If you know what I mean!?! I only want to be with the best and try my hardest to be as good and even BETTER!

Right now I am waiting to get called for my ECI interview (second interview). It looks like no one is hiring for Jan but May and Sept look very promising, as long as I pass my ECI, LFI and psychs. My police recuiter told me that interviews for ECI will most likely start in Jan, so even if I get an offer for May I would still defer that till Sept so I could go on course this summer!

So I guess I‘ll be at the armouries on Wed night at 1900??

Who should I ask for, where should I go?

Thanks a million for helping me out and hopefully if the Argylls sell me on their training aspect compared to the RHLI. I‘ll join and don the kilt with pride! hehe

And I would really like to get some more info on trainig dates coming up during 2004, I got some dates from RHLI but it sounds just by your last post that you know a little more, which is good for me!

Thanks again!

Keep the posts coming!!!

 

[babicma]

Decision has been made:

Score is

NCO: 2

Officer: 1

Cheers everyone for helping me come to a decision!

 

[xFusilier]

First of all you have to determine what you want. The fact is that after 6 years experience in the militia I cannot draw a collation between officers that were troop/NCO‘s and officers that were not. I have worked for excellent officers that were recruited right of the street, and I have worked for horrible officers that were MCpl‘s and Sgt‘s. Being an NCO does not necessarily make one a better officer.

Having spent 6 years in the Militia, and worked for the RCMP and a civillian member, I can tell you that in my own experience the single biggest thing that the Militia can offer you as a potential police recruit is the opportunity to work in a position of responsibility. You will recieve more responsiblity in a shorter period of time as a officer. Simple as that. Join as a soldier (Not an NCO - you don‘t get to be an NCO until you are promoted MCpl and that will be 4 years away)the first 2-3 years of your time in will be spent as a follower.

 

[babicma]

Sorry I screwed up!

I was thinking NCO as being a private also. I mean going through the ranks up to NCO then going officer.

I remember in the Navy the short year I spent it seemed like the officers that came off the street had no clue as to being a sailor. All their were were a bunck of paper pushing yuppies. Thats what they looked like and the NCO‘s were the real deal. The first time I noticed it was in my BRT graduation when the officers were marching and doing the drill. They had no snap and no stomp. Thats when I got the idea that "thank GOD im an OS and didnt go in as an Officer!"

Cheers!

 

[ggranatstein]

Ouch!

This officer-bashing has run rampant.

Does anyone have anything positive to say about us?

It‘s very easy to pick on the guy / girl in charge. It‘s very easy to say that you could do better. It‘s not as easy to actually do it.

If you think that the officer corps is in abysmal shape - become and officer and help change it! Just complaining will get us nowhere.

 

[Michael OLeary]

If we‘re going to measure the effectiveness of the officers solely on their drill performance, shall we also measure the effectiveness of NCOs solely by the quality of their writing? Generalized comparisons between the officer and NCO corps are usually poorly presented, wrongly situated and, at the heart of it, incorrect in context, content and tone. We no more enrol officer candidates to become drill gods than we enrol our NCMs to become expert staff writers. And yet in some cases, we cultivate high standards of both skills in select officer and NCOs. Bashing one or the other group on the context of narrow single-skill comparisons is a waste of time.

An infantry soldier may spend more time handling and firing weapons than his platoon commander, but of the two only the platoon commander will be running those firing ranges within a few years of recruitment. Don‘t allow the idea that common basic skill sets in the basic training of each allows simplistic comparisons of their later scope of duties and responsibilities.

Mike

 

[Vigilant]

I‘m trying to convey the fact that being an Officer is not always the best choice. It is good if you like being a manager and large amounts of responsibility, but if all you want to do is have some fun and get some good experience then it may not be the best choice for you.

I have talked to so many Officers who said that they wished they were NCMs so that they could get more field work, and heard a lot about people who were Officers just for the power trip.

In this case babicma is looking for some relevant experience that he could put on his application.
I beleive that my point in this context is quite valid.

Michael OLeary:

I didn‘t write that I would NOT accept a Captain. My points were that his experience as an NCM would be much better suited to his stated goal, and that rank isn‘t as much of a factor as his level of physical fitness.

 

[humint]

You‘ll get all sorts of Officers -- good ones and bad ones, from both the street and the ranks. It all depends on the person, nothing more and nothing less. The same exists in the ranks. You get good troopers and you get crap troopers. Such is life and it will always be that way. You take the hand you‘re dealt and you do the best you can with it.

As for NCM or Officer career path -- it all depends on what you want to get out of it and its applicability to your objective (which is to become an ERT member). Both will do you well. However, you will get more time/hands-on with weapons as an NCM, which may be more important to you.

In the real world when you apply for a job, you will not be discriminated on the basis of whether you are an NCM or Officer. The fact you were in the CF is what really matters. In my civ job, I work with both former NCOs and Officers, and we all eat in the same lunch room.

Definitely come in to the Argylls on Wed night. Come by the Recruiting Office and ask for the Recruiting Officer. You‘ll get all the details you need. You can also check out the Argyll website at www.ashofc.ca.

 

[ggranatstein]

Humint,

How is your back?