Sailors don't wear CADPAT direction by CANFORGEN

[Monsoon]

SJS= L1 HQ  - Not an issue here as they can all be in DEU.
4 H Svc Gp - Do these pers not wear "traditional" hospital clothing when operating within the clinics?  Those working behind desks can then switch to DEU. 

You'd be surprised how few clinicians there are in the H Svcs branch in comparison to everyone else, but you point is well taken about SJS. In fact, I'll do you one better and suggest that anyone who works in an office and calls themselves a professional should dress like a professional dresses in an office - in a jacket and tie. But I'm sure I'm one of a very few people who feel that way. In any case, there are probably more "oddball" units than you realize, and it's not really reasonable to default to army dress for all of them.

[quote author=ArmyVern]
It just seems to me that the only purple trades that are "really" purple are the Army and AF sporting DEU ones ... being that we wear and continue to wear NCDs when posted aboard ships etc ... apparently, it's not reciprocal.
[/quote]
They wear NCDs on ship because they don't want to be burned alive in the event of a fire. Navy guys wear CADPAT in Afghanistan/Sudan/Golan/where ever because they don't want to stand out. Those are environmental considerations. At Navy shore establishments Army and Air Force types have always worn the combats associated with their DEU; the latest CANFORGEN just makes that reciprocal for Navy pers posted elsewhere in the joint-iverse.

[quote author=ArmyVern]
I'm still amazed that the black beret was ever authorized to be worn by those of the naval enviornment as are many tankers that I know.
[/quote]
And now that ball caps are authorized as walking-out dress, Navy folks can look forward to never wearing that ridiculous scrap of fabric again. Sounds like a win-win!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And now that ball caps are authorized as walking-out dress, Navy folks can look forward to never wearing that ridiculous scrap of fabric again. Sounds like a win-win!

Yup, just like Skippy, the pump jockey.

 

[Monsoon]

Yup, just like Skippy, the pump jockey.

While we're trading head dress jibes:

;D

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Pretty close except for the shirt. Stripes make me look fat.

Now for MARS, including the requesite long Lt (Navy) hair..............and NCD hat

 

[FDO]

Have a look at this MARGEN. NCR and all other units will have to not only allow sailors to wear ballcaps but have to go out and get them (yeah right). What's going to be interesting is what kind of crest are the different units going to come up with to wear on the NCD jacket. And yes If I had my way I'd give my black beret to the Zipperheads, giftwrapped even. It's their tradition not the Navy's. A ballcap and a peakedcap is all I really need. Besides the new berets don't have enough material to form properly.

http://marcom-comar.mil.ca/Repository/margens/2009/034-09.pdf

 

[tango22a]

FDO:

Thanks, we'll take 'em.....Gift wrapped or not!

This may seem a trivial thing to some of you non-Armour people, but it's a really BIG thing to us zipperheads. Especially when a person calls the Black Beret a "ridiculous scrap of fabric"! It may be ridiculous to you but it's HERITAGE to us!


tango22a

Edited for quotation and text.

 

[CountDC]

Funny we're only hearing from those who've got such a BIG problem with wearing CADPAT.

Its a freaking work dress. I don't hear this much griping from Army/Air Force pers in NCDs  : maybe they're just more savvy at adaptation and change then the Naval element and understands that despite being Army/Air Force by uniform, they're their MOC first.

The only BIG problem with wearing CADPAT that some of us have is that it is not our dress.  If I am not going to the field why do I need it .  Does it make me more productive in the office?  No, so I should be wearing my NCDs. If all these people want to wear CADPAT for no valid reason other than they like it then they should change to army.

As for army/air force in NCDs - I have never seen either posted to a navy base and made to wear NCDs.  Even when the ship was in for refit they wore their blue/green into the shore office. They only wore the NCDs when actually in the ship.  The WO I worked with continued to wear his CADPAT after the ship came out of refit until we were actually scheduled to sail. Should be the same for the Navy - wear the CADPAT when in the field.

 

[CountDC]

Especially when that beret properly, and traditionally, belongs to the Armoured Corps :

So would us tankers.

Exactly - made that mistake when I was army - asked the PO what armoured unit he belonged with, didn't know anything about navy at the time.

 

[CountDC]

Have a look at this MARGEN. NCR and all other units will have to not only allow sailors to wear ballcaps but have to go out and get them (yeah right). What's going to be interesting is what kind of crest are the different units going to come up with to wear on the NCD jacket. And yes If I had my way I'd give my black beret to the Zipperheads, giftwrapped even. It's their tradition not the Navy's. A ballcap and a peakedcap is all I really need. Besides the new berets don't have enough material to form properly.

http://marcom-comar.mil.ca/Repository/margens/2009/034-09.pdf

ummm no.

Did you miss para 2?

2. THIS POLICY APPLIES TO ALL UNITS CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED BY MARCOM TO ISSUE
BALLCAPS FOR WEAR WITH NAVAL COMBAT DRESS

As for jacket crests - the units aren't going to come up with ones.  For example I am currently at a unit that does not have one so we do not wear a crest and as it is NCR we do not have ballcaps.  It would continue that way if posted to an army unit in Calgary - no ballcap or crest.

 

[gcclarke]

I just love how the whole unification debacle is still managing to bite us in the arse 41 years later. Thanks a lot Mr. Hellyer!

 

[Navy_Blue]

On the being “more visible” note.  The submariners in the mix are expected to be able to wear our covies as walking out dress.  We are planning on dolphins for our ball caps and we might be able to wear our white sweaters through out the dockyard.  I think its far overdue myself. 

Up until now we could only wear our coveralls on NC jetty around the MOG or between the lift and the MOG.

 

[McG]

In any case, there are probably more "oddball" units than you realize, and it's not really reasonable to default to army dress for all of them.

If you reread my post which you partially quoted, you will note that I did not sugest people default to "army dress" in the "oddball" units.  In fact, I stated that for those units alone it makes sense to have a policy of wear your environment's operational dress.

The only BIG problem with wearing CADPAT that some of us have is that it is not our dress.  If I am not going to the field why do I need it .  Does it make me more productive in the office?  No, so I should be wearing my NCDs.

In the office?!  I think both you and the Army guy beside you should be in DEU if your employment keeps you in an office.

 

[SeanNewman]

I think at the end of the day it's just going to exclude people and make them not feel like part of the team.

Here you've had people acting like and dressing like everyone else they work with (assuming it's mixed company), and now all of a sudden you'll have the oddball standing out like a sore thumb.

I don't think it has anything to do with being proud of your trade more than it does being part of a team.  I'm about as hardcore proud of being in the Army as one can be, but if I for whatever reason were on a sub I would be more than happy to wear the sub's dress of the day.

There is plenty of time to show your affiliation on formal days like parades and mess dinners...why break up the team like this?

 

[Poppa]

(And nothing looks as bad as CADPAT bursting at the seams)

Ummm, I'd have to say 3B's look worse

 

[FDO]

There should be absolutly NO reason to have anything busting at the seams! You can exchange Operationaol kit at clothing stores (6 month wait for some) and DEUs can be had from Logisik. If it doesn't fit suck it up and either get a larger size or push away from the trough sooner! No having the proper fit is not a valid excuse.

Wearing CADPAT when required is not a problem. If I was posted to a unit and in the field then it's a no brainer. My NCDs are NOT the proper kit for the field. Same as making Army and Air Force wear NCDs on a ship. It's a safety thing. CADPAT will leave a nasty mark when it melts to your skin. NCDs are designed for wear in emergency situations like fire!! However, If I'm sitting in an office then NCDs or DEU could be worn.

There is one unit I know of and probably several others that have issued a "wait" on NCDs until it can be checked out or whatever. Funny how a MWO or Maj can just disregard an order from VCDS because they don't like it!

 

[kratz]

There is one unit I know of and probably several others that have issued a "wait" on NCDs until it can be checked out or whatever. Funny how a MWO or Maj can just disregard an order from VCDS because they don't like it!

I have heard of this "wait" in two units this week, both at different bases.

 

[McG]

I have heard of this "wait" in two units this week, both at different bases.

It is not only units directing pers not to action the CANFORGEN.  I am aware of at least one formation to have passed this direction to subordinate formations & units.

 

[gcclarke]

And the bun-fight begins.

...

I'm fairly certain that I know who will win this one.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So, this directive is being taken to help to expose the navy to Canadian citizens, to increase (hopefullY) the number of people who are recruited into the Navy?

You are fuckin joking right?  They think this will make people want to join the navy?

Man...there really are some dumb people in decision making roles aren't there?

:

This is the BEST they could come up with?  The word "weak" just doesn't seem to cover it.

I think the Navy just has to come to terms that people aren't attracted to life at sea the same way as life in the army or life in hotels (Go Air Force!)  > and I am going to have to point out the obvious here...seeing some (usually) out of shape guy in (frequently) wrinkled NCDs and poorly polished boots with a ball hat on is NOT going to "turn that around".

Someone should be embarassed about this "recruiting plan" IMO.

Maybe the Navy wouldn't have to recruit so much if their people were happier?  Just a thought....

 

[gwp]

It is not only units directing pers not to action the CANFORGEN.  I am aware of at least one formation to have passed this direction to subordinate formations & units.

This will be interesting to watch.

Eventually people will begin to realize how serious the Navy is about this. 

Other scuttlebutt is that after following up compliance disciplanary action will be offered for disobeying the directive? 

Would seem that supervisors who advise to disregard the directive are potentially standing themselves and their subordinates into danger.

The service Chiefs are likely on side this VCDS directive.