Sailors to Wear CADPAT?

[CallOfDuty]

  Call me crazy...but as a brand new OS, I thought the Cadpat in BMQ was really comfortable and now that I'm in NCD's I'm constantly worried about wrinkles,finding dust, dirt and crap all over my black pants and jacket and stuff like that.  To me the NCD's are nice and comfortable, but I think I'd enjoy wearing a Navy version of cadpat, with a nice black T-shirt underneath and black beret and anchor capbadge.
    I'm sure I just pissed the sailors off!
  Cheers guys
Steve

 

[Good2Golf]

...
By the way I've noticed a fair number of folks on here referring to our warships as "boats." Unless it's a submarine or a Ferry it is referred to as a ship. The boat is the little thing you hoist on board your ship!

So saying the anchors spew forth from the pointy end of the boat is out?  ;D

Cheers,
Duey

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

So saying the anchors spew forth from the pointy end of the boat is out?  ;D

Cheers,
Duey

After the last two posts I am absolutely apoplectic!! :crybaby:

what is this world coming to??

 

[Good2Golf]

After the last two posts I am absolutely apoplectic!! :crybaby:

what is this world coming to??

...ummmm, the boxy end of the boat?  >

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

...ummmm, the boxy end of the boat?   >

Is nothing sacred to you zoomies? ha ha.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I have a couple of comments on the uniform issue.  In my time with the CF I have worn all three elemental uniforms but at present time I am proud to say I am a Sailor.

With regard to the DEU I am forced to wear.  I bloody hate it with a passion.  Officers are welcome to it, they look ok with it as it as more traditional.  I am a Lower Decker (NCM to you Army types), I want to look like a proper Hairybag not some officer wannabe, give me the square rig any day.  And I really hate a Forage Cap at any time, but especially with Salt and Peppers.  I and most of my kin here would prefer the Beret as head dress for that order of dress.

As for the NCDs, they have one thing going for them in that they are Nomex.  Otherwise they are not worth jackshit.  Too many damn buttons to fiddle with in the middle of the night while you are scrambling to clear the mess along with 20+ others to get to your stations.  The Submariners/HTFF/FF have it better with the coveralls, zip and go.  No farting around either when you don Bunker Gear too, jump right in.  The shirt never stays in the pants worth a damn with the result you look like crap most of the time. 

A friend ashore in Supply informs me that we will be going over to coveralls and zippered boots in the next couple of years.  Common sense must have struck someone in Ottawa.  About bloody time.  There are also new winter undergarmets coming too in the same vein as what the Army now enjoys.  BUT for the love of God, they have selected white again as the colour.  They must be out of their minds again, that colour is not ship life friendly and quickly looks like a drity rag.  Navy Blue would have been a sane choice.

The Army guy who suggested we could use CADPAT if we were ever sunk.  That really made me laugh, but in a good way.  Buddy, if I have the experience of going down at sea, I would be frigging thrilled to wear a bannana leaf as a thong if I made it to any shore.  You have no idea just how big the ocean is, or how luck you are to get a chance to have another second chance if the shit hits the fan.

 

[navymich]

Jollyjacktar, by your post I take it that you have finished banging your head against a wall and actually decided to come up with a comment.  (for those that didn't see it before it was deleted, the member had earlier today posted only the head-banging emoticon)

I have a couple of comments on the uniform issue.  In my time with the CF I have worn all three elemental uniforms but at present time I am proud to say I am a Sailor.

I too am proud to be a Sailor, but I back my statement up with a profile that is filled in.  I suggest you do the same so that your statement is taken for what it should therefore be worth.

With regard to the DEU I am forced to wear.  I bloody hate it with a passion.  Officers are welcome to it, they look ok with it as it as more traditional.  I am a Lower Decker (NCM to you Army types), I want to look like a proper Hairybag not some officer wannabe, give me the square rig any day.  And I really hate a Forage Cap at any time, but especially with Salt and Peppers.  I and most of my kin here would prefer the Beret as head dress for that order of dress.

As for the NCDs, they have one thing going for them in that they are Nomex.  Otherwise they are not worth jackshit.  Too many damn buttons to fiddle with in the middle of the night while you are scrambling to clear the mess along with 20+ others to get to your stations.  The Submariners/HTFF/FF have it better with the coveralls, zip and go.  No farting around either when you don Bunker Gear too, jump right in.  The shirt never stays in the pants worth a damn with the result you look like crap most of the time. 

A friend ashore in Supply informs me that we will be going over to coveralls and zippered boots in the next couple of years.  Common sense must have struck someone in Ottawa.  About bloody time.  There are also new winter undergarmets coming too in the same vein as what the Army now enjoys.  BUT for the love of God, they have selected white again as the colour.  They must be out of their minds again, that colour is not ship life friendly and quickly looks like a drity rag.  Navy Blue would have been a sane choice.

The Army guy who suggested we could use CADPAT if we were ever sunk.  That really made me laugh, but in a good way.  Buddy, if I have the experience of going down at sea, I would be frigging thrilled to wear a bannana leaf as a thong if I made it to any shore.  You have no idea just how big the ocean is, or how luck you are to get a chance to have another second chance if the crap hits the fan.

As for the rest of your comment, I would like to say well written, and good use of summarizing all that has been said.  And notice I say "I would like to say".  Because all it does look like is that you picked key points of the previous posts in this thread and put them into one and called it your own.  And until you back up your statement with some history and experience, I will err on the side of caution and not assume that these words are your own.  But, as much as I prefer to be right, I have been proven wrong before.  So feel free to add some background behind your post and I will then accept it at face value.

 

[Sub_Guy]

WOW, navymich seems to be dropping the hammer on a lot of posts, this is the second time I have seen her critical of another individual's comments. 

I agree with jollyjackstar, give me the square rig I want to look like a sailor, but the beret, I have always hated the beret and always will.  I prefer the ball cap (worn with NCDs of course).  If it was decided that we were going to wear cadpat baseside, I would accept that as they are more comfortable than wearing our NCDS's.  At sea the answer is coveralls, I can back that up as I have been to sea wearing NCDs (surface) and coveralls (subsurface).  The coveralls were much more comfortable and practical.  The wearing of CADPAT at sea is silly, and I am willing to wager that there isn't much weight in this rumour. 

That's my 0.02 worth...

 

[Good2Golf]

See...I wasn't joking about guys wanting square rig!  Good on the killicks (sp?) and the lads! 

Cheers,
Duey

 

[FSTO]

All I can add to Jollyjacktar's post is this; think of an overweight sailor in NCD's and wearing the warbag.  :-X

 

[Cloud Cover]

I agree with jollyjackstar, give me the square rig I want to look like a sailor, but the beret, I have always hated the beret and always will.  I prefer the ball cap (worn with NCDs of course).  If it was decided that we were going to wear cadpat baseside, I would accept that as they are more comfortable than wearing our NCDS's.  At sea the answer is coveralls, I can back that up as I have been to sea wearing NCDs (surface) and coveralls (subsurface).  The coveralls were much more comfortable and practical.  The wearing of CADPAT at sea is silly, and I am willing to wager that there isn't much weight in this rumour. 

That's my 0.02 worth...

Square rig, NCD's and CADPATS? Come on ... the square rig is a pain in the arse, especially the lid.

 

[jollyjacktar]

There you go navymilch.  I assure you I have plenty of TI, more than some here in fact, so I have earned some right to bitch.  I have time in both the combat arms and combat service support too, this is my second Reg MOC.  And as I may from time to time put my oar in the water I will keep some distance from full disclosure as I see by your profile you have.  And yes I was banging my head against the wall, sadly I am not fully computer friendly so I lost my original post twice before what was posted.

I did not cut and paste if that is what you are suggesting, or insuating.  My comments were my view point on our DEU's, Forage Caps, and an agreement on Square Rig desires, the rest was in addition to what has been commented on by others.  Take it for what you will, or how you will...

 

[navymich]

jollyjacktar, welcome to army.ca and welcome to the Navy boards as well.  Your past experience and knowledge will, I'm sure, add to future posts here, as well as throughout the site.

It is often difficult to tell on here who is real and who is playing around.  And a first post such as yours, as well as a blank profile, unfortunately puts up the red flags, for me anyway.

Maybe I am wrong to put so much in my profile, as anyone who wanted to, would have no trouble tracking me down.  But I am open and honest, and as you have seen, speak my mind.

 

[Enzo]

Jolly, I enjoyed your post. I laughed a bit and anything that makes me laugh today is endearing.

Ok, coveralls (dark blue) w/ black tee and ball cap. What's the problem?

Why is this such an issue? As for white anything... only someone in an office in Ottawa would see that as well thought out.

Then again, I'm a grunt (side-lined at that). I don't know any better.

Cheers...

 

[jollyjacktar]

I am glad Enzo you got a laugh out of it.  I expect it was the comments on being left in the water without a taxi so to speak.  As you are a combat arms type I can understand and expect you may not fully grasp the other side of the coin out on the big blue ocean.

I have been witness to the fury of the sea and as such have gained a very healthy respect for her powers.  There was a ship called the "Leader L" who was a bulk cargo hauler, she breached her hull and went down in around 5 minutes.  We as a task group went to full speed in an attempt to rescue those who made it out alive.  Sadly there was as I remember around a 60% loss of life.  It was so rough we were walking on the bulkheads (walls to you landlubbers) on occasion which was pretty astounding as I was on the Tanker at the time.  She really does not move much unless it is really hairy out there.  The next day following the storm we had all sorts of unbelieveable damage.  Seeing as some of the things we go out on are getting too long in the tooth to be fully reliable on the whole, it is kinda like a pilot who will tell you that any landing they can walk away from is a good one.  Well any trip that ends with my stepping onto dry land without wearing a palm leaf for underwear is a good one. :warstory:

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

There you go navymilch.  I assure you I have plenty of TI, more than some here in fact, so I have earned some right to *****.  I have time in both the combat arms and combat service support too, this is my second Reg MOC.  And as I may from time to time put my oar in the water I will keep some distance from full disclosure as I see by your profile you have.  And yes I was banging my head against the wall, sadly I am not fully computer friendly so I lost my original post twice before what was posted.

I did not cut and paste if that is what you are suggesting, or insuating.  My comments were my view point on our DEU's, Forage Caps, and an agreement on Square Rig desires, the rest was in addition to what has been commented on by others.  Take it for what you will, or how you will...

It would be interesting to go back to square rig but of course with modern textiles and not the old uncomfortable woolen stuff. ( From what the old timers say the ladies really used to like that rig!)

The DEU is meant to be worn daily by people who work in an office and therefore are in contact with the public...Stad, NDHQ and of course as our full dress uniform for parades and special occasions. I think we should all be proud to wear it...it represents tradition and pride in our heritage.

When I first joined (Adam was a killick) you were not allowed to walk off base in "work-dress" the fore runner of the NCDs or Combats in the Army. You either went ashore, or off base in sports gear or changed into DEU.
Many people's work dress was paint spattered or greasy from working in the day and the CF thought it looked undisciplined and unprofessional to have people in public in a uniform that was less than "tiddily."

Perhaps uniforms should evolve like everything else. I like the tradition of wearing a peaked cap (it was never called a forage cap in the Navy ) but find it a royal pain to pack for an air voyage or in cramped shipboard conditions. I don't know what would take it's place. (I understand a lot of RCMP constables hate wearing Red Serge and Stetsons but I doubt you'll ever see it phased out. My neice is a Mountie and she has a lot of trouble travelling with that bad boy.)

The beret is an Army invention really....taken from the  Belgians and the French during the Second World War I believe...it is easy to stow in a pocket (never under the lapel)...I always think it looks so un-Navy to see people wearing them (not judging those who do it's just my impression). The ball cap is an American invention...useful at sea but not very professional looking ashore IMHO.

Fire retardent coveralls for workdress sounds good to me....but let's not let them convince us to wear them in a CADPAT format so they can save a few bucks on buttons and bows. white sounds like a bad idea.

 

[Enzo]

Jolly, I know that there's a lot of sarcasm moving around, but I think you understood that I really did enjoy what you wrote. I wanted to be clear about that - I have a habit of being sarcastic myself, it's how I hide my pain.  ;D

And yeah, it was the bananna thong comment, I'm still laughing over that.

Cheers...

 

[Good2Golf]

It would be interesting to go back to square rig but of course with modern textiles and not the old uncomfortable woolen stuff. ( From what the old timers say the ladies really used to like that rig!)

The DEU is meant to be worn daily by people who work in an office and therefore are in contact with the public...Stad, NDHQ and of course as our full dress uniform for parades and special occasions. I think we should all be proud to wear it...it represents tradition and pride in our heritage.

When I first joined (Adam was a killick) you were not allowed to walk off base in "work-dress" the fore runner of the NCDs or Combats in the Army. You either went ashore, or off base in sports gear or changed into DEU.
Many people's work dress was paint spattered or greasy from working in the day and the CF thought it looked undisciplined and unprofessional to have people in public in a uniform that was less than "tiddily."

Perhaps uniforms should evolve like everything else. I like the tradition of wearing a peaked cap (it was never called a forage cap in the Navy ) but find it a royal pain to pack for an air voyage or in cramped shipboard conditions. I don't know what would take it's place. (I understand a lot of RCMP constables hate wearing Red Serge and Stetsons but I doubt you'll ever see it phased out. My neice is a Mountie and she has a lot of trouble travelling with that bad boy.)

The beret is an Army invention really....taken from the  Belgians and the French during the Second World War I believe...it is easy to stow in a pocket (never under the lapel)...I always think it looks so un-Navy to see people wearing them (not judging those who do it's just my impression). The ball cap is an American invention...useful at sea but not very professional looking ashore IMHO.

Fire retardent coveralls for workdress sounds good to me....but let's not let them convince us to wear them in a CADPAT format so they can save a few bucks on buttons and bows. white sounds like a bad idea.

In Hoc, I'm pretty sure I'm squared away with what "pusser" means, but not at all hoisting aboard "tiddily"...  ???

Cheers,
Duey

 

[M Feetham]

OK, here's my two cents worth.
Peak cap, hate it, I would much rather wear a beret, even in no 1's. It is just more comfortable. The exception to that would be when wearing whites in NY city during fleet week.(Chick magnet)
NCD's, I don't mind them as a shipboard dress, but I really don't like the fact that people wear it as a walking in dress. I don't think it looks very professional and it almost always looks sloppy and dirty.
Cadpat on board ships would be downright dangerous I think cause it is too loose fitting. The engineers in the engine room would really be at risk of getting caught in moving parts.
The coveralls, which have been fought over off and on for years would be nice, easy in easy out and not much chance of snagging on something. Zippered boots too, especially for rescue divers.
I agree that we are losing a lot of our traditions in the navy. I think we should splice the main brace at least once a week wether we need it or not.
UP Spirits.
Marc

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

OK, here's my two cents worth.
Peak cap, hate it, I would much rather wear a beret, even in no 1's. It is just more comfortable. The exception to that would be when wearing whites in NY city during fleet week.(Chick magnet)
NCD's, I don't mind them as a shipboard dress, but I really don't like the fact that people wear it as a walking in dress. I don't think it looks very professional and it almost always looks sloppy and dirty.
Cadpat on board ships would be downright dangerous I think cause it is too loose fitting. The engineers in the engine room would really be at risk of getting caught in moving parts.
The coveralls, which have been fought over off and on for years would be nice, easy in easy out and not much chance of snagging on something. Zippered boots too, especially for rescue divers.
I agree that we are losing a lot of our traditions in the navy. I think we should splice the main brace at least once a week wether we need it or not.
UP Spirits.
Marc

Now you're talking mate! we rolled over for them taking away our tots in 72 and it's been downhill ever since.
Of course we used to make lots of excuses to splice the mainbrace at least 4 or 5 times a year when I first joined but I think it's getting a lot scarcer now.

It is a shame that these things aren't being taught but I wonder if it's just not being caught? That is, they may be teaching it but unless it is practised it's like French...you'll forget it quickly.

I think a lack of person power and so much on the agenda nowadays....gotta get your French...gotta get your OPMEs....this course that course...has taken away the time we had to do tiddily ropework, practice seamanship skills...we had a regatta in Esquimalt every spring and summer to practice boatwork, sailing, war canoe...and generally have a great banyan afterwards...oh yeah tug o war...where I ruined my back for the rest of my career...ha ha  :crybaby:

How do we interest our young folks in this when they seem more prone to play Nintendo or watch an action (American) in the cave? (that's the Jr Ranks Mess, Duey)

aye is simply old English for yes......Ready? Yes Ready!...AYE AYE...Double yes...sort of like "Sir, Yes Sir!"

I got another 8 years before I swallow the anchor (retire...duey) so maybe I'll see a turn around....did any one see the article on the new JSS contract today? Oh yeah that's another thread....