"Sergeant Major" and CWO Appointments

[Jungle]

Battalions and Regiments are the same thing in the modern sense of the word.   The PPCLI do NOT have a Regimental Sergeant Major, rather, each battalion of the PPCLI has its own RSM.

Confused yet....??

The short answer was given above.

This is not exactly true. In the R22eR, we have RSMs in every Battalion, but we also have a "Chief Warrant Officer of the Regiment". He is the RSM of the area training center (formerly the Regt'l Battle School) and overseas Regt'l activities, career and succession planning etc...

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Now that is interesting, Jungle, thanks for the clarification.

Reserve brigades also have "Brigade RSMs" which would sort be a "Regimental Sergeant Major" if you consider a Brigade the equivalent of a Regiment in other armies.

 

[rifleman]

RSM and CSM are very overused terms. Brigades have Brigade Chief Warrant Officers, RSM is usually used as the Bde CWOs were RSMs before being appointed. You can have more than one CWO in a unit, and only one is the RSM.  All MWOs are not CSMs

 

[pbi]

RSM and CSM are very overused terms. Brigades have Brigade Chief Warrant Officers, RSM is usually used as the Bde CWOs were RSMs before being appointed. You can have more than one CWO in a unit, and only one is the RSM. All MWOs are not CSMs

Actually, Bdes and other formations have whatever their Commanders say they have. LFWA, for example, has an ARSM, not an ACWO. In 38 CBG we have a BRSM. If a Bde wants to call it the "BCWO" (which risks confusion with the Air Force Base Chief Warrant Officer) that is up to their Commander. Cheers.

 

[rifleman]

True, the commander can be call them Head Honcho, doesn't mean its correct. MO

 

[pbi]

True, the commander can be call them Head Honcho, doesn't mean its correct. MO

I'm curious to know what yardstick you are using to define "correct", since the yerm "Regimental Sergeant Major" is itself "traditional" rather than "correct": in the Infantry and CSS they are actually SMs of battalions" not "regiments". Cheers.

 

[rifleman]

Yardstick? haven't seen that for years. I base it on the name 'RSM' for Regiments.

I was in 38 and others calling the Bde CWO, RSM drove me nuts.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Yardstick? haven't seen that for years. I base it on the name 'RSM' for Regiments.

I was in 38 and others calling the Bde CWO, RSM drove me nuts.

And calling the battalion sergeant major "RSM" didn't?

I usually just call them all "Sir" anyway....

 

[rifleman]

And calling the battalion sergeant major "RSM" didn't?

I usually just call them all "Sir" anyway....

Who say I did that either..  ^-^

 

[pbi]

Yardstick? haven't seen that for years. I base it on the name 'RSM' for Regiments.

I was in 38 and others calling the Bde CWO, RSM drove me nuts.

OK, great, but on what basis do you say that calling it "BRSM" is not correct, but "Bde CWO" is? Or is it that you just don't like that term? IMHO "CWO" is just a rank: "SM", or "RSM" or "BRSM" indicates an appointment, which is why the BRSM gets the appointment badge. If we are talking about opinions here, then mine is that the fewer "CF purple" terms we use in the Army the better. Cheers.

 

[rifleman]

What does a Bde CWO have to do with "purple" and
By what tradition is a Brigade appointed CWO a RSM?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

What does a Bde CWO have to do with "purple" and
By what tradition is a Brigade appointed CWO a RSM?

CWO is a RANK

RSM is an APPOINTMENT

Army units generally refer to people by their APPOINTMENT when and where it exists.   When was the last time you heard the Pipe Major addressed as "sergeant"?  

Purple refers to Unification and the mixing of the three elements.  While the other services may refer to persons in appointments by their rank, it is not an Army tradition.

 

[rifleman]

I know what purple refers to and last time I checked CWO was a army rank.

I contend that RSM is an appointment at the Regimental level.

 

[Horse_Soldier]

I know what purple refers to and last time I checked CWO was a army rank.

I contend that RSM is an appointment at the Regimental level.

You may contend all you like, but tradition throughout the Commonwealth is against you.  By tradition, the RSM is the senior non-commissioned appointment in a battalion-sized unit or above.  If the term RSM irks you, call him/her Brigade Sergeant-Major, but please leave abominations such as Bde CWO to the purple monster lurking around the fringes of the "green" army. 

 

[Infanteer]

How about just calling him "Chief"....

 

[Michael Dorosh]

How about just calling him "Chief"....

Usually done whilst sitting in his chair and putting your feet on his desk.

 

[Horse_Soldier]

How about just calling him "Chief"....

You go ahead and do it.  I'll stick to the traditional titles.  I was reminded in a rather unmistakable manner twenty-odd years ago that the power of the RSM (be it unit, formation or command) goes beyond what us mere mortal officers can aspire to, and the lesson has stuck 

 

[Jungle]

I know what purple refers to and last time I checked CWO was a army rank.

CWO is an Army AND Air Force rank. Only the Navy have different names for the same ranks.

Sgt-Majors are Army-only appointments.

 

[RCA]

And "Chiefs" are only in the Navy. I wouldn't advise using it on an Army CWO, particuallry an RSM.

 

[Infanteer]

In fact, call him "Chief" with your hands in your pockets and chewing on some gum.