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Should the Canadian Coast Guard be armed?

The good news is there are lots of self-contained weapon systems out there that would make arming existing vessels far easier and not as expensive as before. Was watching a video of the Bofors 57mm ship gun, would make a useful addition. As would the 25mm Bushmaster Marine mount.

One of the problems with the existing CCG ships would be the limited space forward to mount a larger system than the 25mm. Most have a forward well deck cluttered with cranes.
 
I think you would still run into problems with storing the ammunition. From what I remember of the few I have been on, you would not be able to have a large amount of ammunition and if you want to store ammunition on the mount then it becomes a safety issue.
 
Just a thought, why dont we put our NavRes members on a Class B/C contract, send them to NBP School, then a stint at say Regau (Customs School) total would be what...umm...something like 6.5months roughly? (just pulling numbers, correcty me if I'm wrong) All of this funded by the PSECP, then make those NavRes members the core boarding cadre for the CCG/CCGA? It would not change the CCG's mandate, albeit we have to tweak the NavRes mandate slightly to include officer powers, but it might work...no?


Wait...I just thought of this but, didnt the CCC say a peace officer is anyone under the NDA whose an officer or an ncm? Those are the MPs right? Why not re-org a component of the NavRes and open up a specialty trade or Marine Boarder Enforcement Specialists (or somethin along those lines). That would some what solve the 'peace officer' issue and not to mention they will be trained at Regau with regards to the Customs Act, CCC and variety of other laws. Just my somewhat sense making .02.
 
Most of the mounts nowdays have their own built in Magazine, likely the ammo would have to be stowed internally in the gun system with approprite safety measures, but it is a good question. An emergancy measure could be the use of the small shipping containers which could be stowed on deck or between decks in the hold.
 
MedTech said:
Just a thought, why dont we put our NavRes members on a Class B/C contract, send them to NBP School, then a stint at say Regau (Customs School) total would be what...umm...something like 6.5months roughly? (just pulling numbers, correcty me if I'm wrong) All of this funded by the PSECP, then make those NavRes members the core boarding cadre for the CCG/CCGA? It would not change the CCG's mandate, albeit we have to tweak the NavRes mandate slightly to include officer powers, but it might work...no?


Wait...I just thought of this but, didnt the CCC say a peace officer is anyone under the NDA whose an officer or an ncm? Those are the MPs right? Why not re-org a component of the NavRes and open up a specialty trade or Marine Boarder Enforcement Specialists (or somethin along those lines). That would some what solve the 'peace officer' issue and not to mention they will be trained at Regau with regards to the Customs Act, CCC and variety of other laws. Just my somewhat sense making .02.
Click to expand...

You are hitting all around the idea of a border patrol.  That will come to pass in time, but as mentioned money and political will are all too scarce. 
 
there is one slight big problem in using resv members.  they are for a most part, part time. ( not to be insulting)  And they have other jobs.  Here in Canada there is no law protecting their jobs, after a military stint.  Such a law would be great and would give the gov alot of members that they can now use.  Yes it is a great idea, but can not be done until the gov passes the law. 
 
Comments about the Reserves are very true, attempting to man a vessel 24/7 would be impossible currently. The CCG uses a 28 day cycle for crews. I suspect they could man a vessel for a certain events, like the Olympics, APEC meetings etc, but as mentioned the laws will have to change before you can even hope to come close, not to mention increasing the number of reservists to draw upon.

The CCG should be seeking volunteers that have a background in firearms/military that are interested in designing a armed program. Send these guys/girls for training and to work with the USCG & RCN to build up the skill sets and write the training manuals and standards for the CCG to use in the near future.
 
Colin P said:
Comments about the Reserves are very true, attempting to man a vessel 24/7 would be impossible currently.
Click to expand...

Is this not what the Naval Reserve is already doing? They do crew several vessels 24/7, year round. I'm not saying the idea is do-able or not, and I have heard manning issues are problematic for MCDV's (and the rest of the fleet too, from what I read here). Merely pointing out  that having full-time operational units crewed by NavRes has been going on for some time.
 
Well this is a surprise to me, you are saying they have the vessel manned mainly by reservists, operational and tasked year round? Believe me I will be happy to be proven wrong.
 
Yes i know that the navy res has crews at the "ready"  but it would help the CF as a whole if we had the same law as they do in the states. 
 
I would be the first person to applaud a Class B-fest for the NavRes.  The more operational/real life training we can get our people the better.  The problem lays in the political will to have the CF conducting domestic enforcement taskings.  I realize that aid to civil power clauses exist, however they are emergency oriented.  We are great with the sand bags and snow shovels, but rounding up bad guys is another story (see: Oka).  What is being discussed here would come under the heading of a peace officer, and then that brings us back to the issue of jurisdiction and administration. 
Canada needs a border patrol, plain and simple.  It should be created and implemented as soon as possible.  Part of that mandate would be coastal/waterway patrol.  At such time as the aquatic element of the border patrol was being put together, I would have to imagine that the Navy guys would have a big leg up in getting hired, especially the ones who had boarding party experience.  As well, you wouldn't need every single member of the ship to be a qualified peace officer, but I believe (and an admin type can set me straight if I am not) that members of the CF would not be eligible for this type of continuous service.  It is DO-able, but it is a case of "would they".
One area the NavRes guys should be looking at is the Army's Regional Defence Brigade concept that is on it's way.  Huge numbers are being looked at for various areas around the country.  I know here in Windsor, they are looking for the Windsor Regiment and the Essex and Kent Scottish to be 1000 strong in the next couple of years between them.  The idea being that if terrorism disrupted the border crossings here, it would take about 2 weeks for Canadian and American economies to cave in.  That being the case though we have a big blob of water to contend with in the form of the Detroit River.  Certainly having Naval resources integrated with the Brigade would be a huge asset.  Even more so for the Left Coast and Maritimes brigades. 
It is definitely a very interesting time to be in the Reserves in any case.  We were told by the area commander that the basic concept of ops will be simply "Overseas operations will be handled by the Regular Force, and assisted by the Reserves.  Domestic operations will be handled by the Reserves, and assisted by the Reg Force".  Some fairly big implications there for us weekenders. 
 
It can be done,  I have been part of the 32 bdg domestic responce team for many years.  and i jokily say i did more work for the OPP and toronto police then i did for the army.  Not every member has to be a peace office, as long as there is a good ratio of a peace officers supervision. 
 
Colin P said:
Well this is a surprise to me, you are saying they have the vessel manned mainly by reservists, operational and tasked year round? Believe me I will be happy to be proven wrong.
Click to expand...

The MCDV (Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels) are crewed and commanded primarily by reservist, so I'm told from my NavRes friends.

HMCS Kingston
HMCS Glace Bay
HMCS Nanaimo
HMCS Edmonton
HMCS Shawinigan
HMCS Whitehorse
HMCS Yellowknife
HMCS Goose Bay
HMCS Moncton
HMCS Saskatoon
HMCS Brandon
HMCS Summerside

splite evenly on both coasts. Full time vessels constantly on patrol.
 
Hi just wanting to throw my uneducated opinion out there and as i didnt have time to read all 7 pages sorry if it was already said. For the time being why not just give each CCG ship/boat a .50cal? It wouldnt break the bank for 1 .50cal and you would only have to train a few guys that volunteer for it. Then as they get new ships {hopefully icebreakers for up north} give them a .50 cal and maybe leave a spot purposely in the bow that is ready to accept a deck gun in case its decided that the north must be defened or have a stronger presence in the future. If you really want to get technical maybe get a few volunteers to form a last resort boarding party and arm them with pistols and maybe an MP5 or two? Again, this is my uneducated 2 cents worth sorry if its been said or is dumb.

                                                                            Steve  :salute:
 
steveyb4342 said:
Hi just wanting to throw my uneducated opinion out there and as i didnt have time to read all 7 pages sorry if it was already said. For the time being why not just give each CCG ship/boat a .50cal? It wouldnt break the bank for 1 .50cal and you would only have to train a few guys that volunteer for it. Then as they get new ships {hopefully icebreakers for up north} give them a .50 cal and maybe leave a spot purposely in the bow that is ready to accept a deck gun in case its decided that the north must be defened or have a stronger presence in the future. If you really want to get technical maybe get a few volunteers to form a last resort boarding party and arm them with pistols and maybe an MP5 or two? Again, this is my uneducated 2 cents worth sorry if its been said or is dumb.

                                                                             Steve  :salute:
Click to expand...

Next time do some reading....
 
Well, of course we need to arm the coast guard. They should not have to call for help from the Navy whenever things that require guarding come along. The little stinch we had a few years back with the Spanish vessel off of Newfoundland would be a perfect example.
 
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