SITREP ON MILITIA INFANTRY UNITS

[the 48th regulator]

Of course, because I don't pay taxes or work weekends.  : 

What you do with your spare time is your business - many reg force troops work as bouncers, and are in the army the rest of the time........so what? It is not uncommon to have two jobs.

Not uncommon to have two jobs, I Serve my Country via the Workforce,  and the service of my country.  And you have the cajones to cry about that??  Do I say that you are doing your living on my dime, and then go seek other employ to collect more?

Think serious, people in the regs that want to sit there and dump on the reservist, better start to look at the big picture. 

dileas

tess

 

[Britney Spears]

Yes,

It would be amusing how you can make that statement, as I have  done what you ask of Pt. Joe, and agree with him actually.

Please hit me one more time with some of your brilliance Britney.

dileas

tess

Didn't we all agree on this on the last re-hashing of this topic? Of course the exact same irrelevant arguments (But I have a civvy job, but I have to live in Shilo, etc) were brought up and beaten to death too, or so I thought.....See, this is the problem when we discuss issues like this, everyone starts taking everything personally and we all go down yelling. I never said that YOU, Tess(if you'll forgive me for being familiar), are incapable of being deployed, that isn't the issue and in any case recent experience(both yours and the big army's) has proven it to be untrue. What it HAS shown is that getting reserve subunits online to the point of being interoperable with the regs is simply not a cost effective use of manpower, given our current situation. Again it's not a knock on the intelligence or dedication of reservists, but it just doesn't make sense to employ them in such a manner unless there are major changes to the reserve force structure.  Wasn't that the conclusion? Or is there a new pam now?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote from GO!!!,
I would submit that if the militia was really intent on "shouldering some of the load" as you put it, we should have no problem raising a platoon of demo troops for Gagetown, or finding a driver for a few days of ranges in Wx. This is not the case though. Reservists seem to be in short supply for the less sexy domestic work, although a horde of them will appear for a basic recce/para course, or the opportunity to deploy. Where is the team? Where is the desire to shoulder the load then?

Unless you spend lots of time down at your local militia unit how do you know how many show up for what? And if you don't then you are talking out your ass, as the only ones you will ever see are the ones your REG FORCE C of C asked for.......

 

[muskrat89]

What it HAS shown is that getting reserve subunits online to the point of being interoperable with the regs is simply not a cost effective use of manpower, given our current situation.

So who's fault is that?  We've had dozens of threads complaining that our "Regular" components aren't interoperable WITH ANYBODY (due to equipment, neglect, lack of mission, lack of funding, etc.) - especially other militaries - it has never, ever crossed my mind, to blame THAT on the soldiers...

 

[JBP]

Furthermore, I believe MANY reservists would also go and do all that extra stuff availible (driver on the weekends, pretend to be enemy force etc...) all those nice little short taskings would be taken care of it I wouldn't be fired from my good-paying civvy job because there's no bloody job protection for reservists either...

I know that at least 3/4 the guys that were on my infantry course would be jumping all over those extra duties if it weren't for the civvy employers telling us no.

EDIT: OH!!! I almost forgot! We also are so under-funded we hardly EVER get to do a driver's course and don't even have enough qualified drivers to support our own "weekend warrior training!".... That too.... No certifications!

Anyway, back to the original point of the thread... About how the reserves are doing.

*Not fantastic!*

I still can't believe there are units out there who train even LESS than my unit. I thought only 1 day a week was weak, nevermind once every 2 weeks etc.... Sad.

One point I noticed last Thursday though, was an offering for my unit to have 10 members go out and train with the closest geographic other reserve infantry unit on thier weekend ex which is in our area, the Niagara Region. I think interaction between units in regards to training would be fantastic and always hoped we'd be able to train with units close to us like the 3 units in Hamilton. Inter-operability would be fantastic, more of it anyway. This year so far we've had 1 unit train with us on an urban-ops excercise, part of the "3-block war concept" and now we've been invited to go hang with them for an excercise. I think that's great and should be reinforced by the higher-ups and become part of the norm that you can go on another unit's weekend ex's etc if avail.

Thoughts? Experiences???

 

[the 48th regulator]

What I do not agree is the attitude that it is a privilege of the regular force person stating he is above an beyond all Canadian citizens as he does it on the full time basis.

I, as a citizen work and pay taxes, and has served my country.  I as a soldier served in an operational theatre.  I did my job assigned to me to the fullest extent.  I laid my life down for my country's call and almost died doing it.

So why is it, I am not privileged to be placed in the same status of those who do there time on a full time basis??  what makes them the better Soldier, or for that matter a better Canadian?

dileas

tess

 

[GO!!!]

It is pretty obvious that you guys will continue to push the superiority of the militia until the end of time, and I've said my piece.

I noticed my reccomendation on the "minimum working days" was totally ignored, which leads me to the conclusion that most reservists are interested in the "cool" part of the army, but not in the hard miles between. Nothing good comes without a bit of work.

Get over yourselves, many people serve this country, even more have second jobs. The difference is that not everyone has the sense of entitlement that abounds on the threads on this site regarding the reserves.

Britney has brought up some good points, so have I, and we are both somewhat acquainted with the "big picture". These apparently must be sacrificed on the altar of "reservist feelings" though, lest an idea not beneficial to the reserves sneak through. "I want a pension for working one day a week" Please. Find a civvie job that does that.

I've had it in this thread, carry on with your sitrep.

I never said I was "above and beyond" all canadian citizens, only that some soldiers are more cost effective, and effective in different roles. Take it as you will, then wipe up your tears and carry on.

 

[Haggis]

I'd love to see this one get back on topic, IMO it had some potential.

... so much for that.... :

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

What about me GO!!!?....never spent a day as a reserve in my life, why do I think you have a lip on for reserves, can't say its because I know anything about them but I can say I know bitter paranoia when I read it.

If you are so threatened by them, release get a civy job and join them....since they obviously have it so much better.

EDIT: Sorry Haggis, guess this post doesn't help but....

 

[Haggis]

What about me GO!!!?....never spent a day as a reserve in my life, why do I think you have a lip on for reserves, can't say its because I know anything about them but I can say I know bitter paranoia when I read it.

If you are so threatened by them, release get a civy job and join them....since they obviously have it so much better.

EDIT: Sorry Haggis, guess this post doesn't help but....

.... I walk away to get a beer and look what happens in the living room...

GO!!!  you've got some good points about the Reserves and thier employability/deployability.  That being said, it's important to remember that the Reserves don't control thier own destiny or thier own purse strings.

Example:  Your idea of  300 minimum days of service (I wasn't ignoring it, I was getting that beer that Bruce made me chug in frustration).  Reservists are funded for 37.5 days of training per year.  Would they want more? Sure!  Just like you want more tours.  But they don't control that, the Reg F does.  Given that cap and your recommendation a Reservist would have to have 8 years of 100% attendance in order to qualify for a deployment.  What incentive is that?

More later.  Need beer.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Britney has brought up some good points, so have I, and we are both somewhat acquainted with the "big picture". These apparently must be sacrificed on the altar of "reservist feelings" though, lest an idea not beneficial to the reserves sneak through. "I want a pension for working one day a week" Please. Find a civvie job that does that.

That's right so that the alter can be cleaned for you to have your soapbox, and collect your day to day on my dime, after we as reservist pay into the system so that you can do that, then we serve our country out of an obligation to our community at large.

I seek to serve, not pin a gong on my chest.  You cry when this happens. I say you thank me for allowing you to seek the path the exact same path I have done, which is to serve our Country.  You say it is full time, so therefore a bigger commitment.  I say my full time commitment is to work to supply you with the funds to do this.  I then take my free time willingly to serve my country.   I get paid for it, and deserve to be compensated for it.  Why?  I paid into it as a Canadian taxpayer.

dileas

tess

 

[Britney Spears]

So who's fault is that?  We've had dozens of threads complaining that our "Regular" components aren't interoperable WITH ANYBODY (due to equipment, neglect, lack of mission, lack of funding, etc.) - especially other militaries - it has never, ever crossed my mind, to blame THAT on the soldiers...

That's exactly why I was complaining about everyone taking this so personally. For the last time: Critique of our organizational failings != Criticism  of the individual soldier.

It's not the fault of the individual soldier that reservists never get to do plt/coy live fires at night with NVGs and lasers, but that's the fact of the matter, and that's one of the reasons why it takes longer for a plt of reservists to achieve that standard, to the point where it becomes uneconomical to even attempt to do so.  This isn't my opinion, this is straight from the Lessons Learned write-ups (Blame Haggis, I bet he had a hand in those).

GO!!! is absolutely right and it has nothing to do with him being reg or reserve, so stop treating all this as some kind of personal affront and get with the operational realities.

 

[Haggis]

(Blame Haggis, I bet he had a hand in those).

... and where did you come up with this?

Hey GO!!!  You never answered my question.  What should we do with the 13,000 odd Reservists we no longer need?

 

[the 48th regulator]

GO!!! is absolutely right and it has nothing to do with him being reg or reserve, so stop treating all this as some kind of personal affront and get with the operational realities.

I would submit that if the militia was really intent on "shouldering some of the load" as you put it, we should have no problem raising a platoon of demo troops for Gagetown, or finding a driver for a few days of ranges in Wx. This is not the case though. Reservists seem to be in short supply for the less sexy domestic work, although a horde of them will appear for a basic recce/para course, or the opportunity to deploy. Where is the team? Where is the desire to shoulder the load then?

What makes the reg force different from the reserves is that we must take the good with the bad. Years between tours and fun courses, early morning PT, crappy taskings, february patrol exes in Wainwright, we have to do it all. That is the difference. We do not have the option to pick and choose.

What are the operational realities.  We don't go operational then we are less deserving.  We want to go Operational, we are stealing positions.

Years between tours and fun courses, early morning PT, crappy taskings, february patrol exes in Wainwright, we have to do it all.

I worked during the week in Toronto, where more people died than on the one tour I had, and still went to work, did my fanout and went to on a weekend ex, to return Monday to start all over again.

dileas

tess

 

[Britney Spears]

... and where did you come up with this?

Is it not true? If not, then what is?

 

[muskrat89]

Right - no need to take this personally:

Yet they are given priority on deployments, to the detriment of morale, experience, training and advancement opportunities for soldiers who were committed enough to sign over three years of their lives, as opposed to cherry picking the tasks of their choice.

How about you actually sign up, go on a tour and  work with the regs in real world ops for a bit before spouting this garbage?

Reservists seem to be in short supply for the less sexy domestic work, although a horde of them will appear for a basic recce/para course, or the opportunity to deploy. Where is the team? Where is the desire to shoulder the load then?

I think that if you want to soldier, you should join the regs. 

and the militia siphons off valuable resources and money, for little return, other than a sense of entitlement to pay benefits and career opportunities that are all to scarce in the regular units.

"Regs work on the weekend as bouncers"  (paraphrased)  And I'm sure these weekend bouncers would never take it personally when the fulltime bouncers constantly told them how they were an ineffective waste of funds, and would never be able to hold a candle to the fulltime staff. Maybe if those guys wanted to be bouncers so bad, they should leave the army and be real bouncers....  When people are proud of what they do, they are bound to take criticisms personally

 

[Haggis]

Is it not true? If not, then what is?

Read my posts more carefully, young lady.  On many occasions I have said that Reservists and Reserve units must work within the arcs set for them by thier Reg F overseers. 

When it comes to deploying Reservists, the "Lessons Learned" are not lessons applied.  With every deployment  those same lessons are re-learned, re-recorded, re-analysed and re-set aside until the next time.  Who can implement the lessons leaned?  Certainly not the Reserves in isolation and definitely not without the support of the Reg F.

Want an example?  A Reservist is selected by his bde to proceed on pre deployment trraining.  But in order to DAG green, he need shots.  The supporting ASU will not give him the shots until he has a tasking message.  He can't get a tasking message until he DAGs green. This has been going on since Roto 0 on every damned mission we emply Reservists on and has been recorded in every AAR session and Lessons Leanred Working Group.  Yet nothing has changed.

Why?

 

[Britney Spears]

OK, the consensus that I thought we had reached, at the conclusion of many threads here on this topic, was  that employing reservists on operations was more trouble than it was CURRENTLY worth, since we have enough regs already. If this has since changed, then I retract my statement and offer my apologies to R031 PTE Joe. In any case it isn't a slam against reservists, but rather against a system which currently does a poor job of providing reserve subunits for overseas duty, a system which I think we all agree can be improved given enough money and effort. I myself was never particularly involved on either side of the debate, I am merely stating my observations.

 

[Haggis]

I'll agree with that to a degree.

The jury is still out on whether we have enough Reg F, particularly outside the Infantry. 

 

[the 48th regulator]

OK, the consensus that I thought we had reached, at the conclusion of many threads here on this topic, was  that employing reservists on operations was more trouble than it was CURRENTLY worth

What's this WE, you have a mouse in your pocket?

More trouble to the those that feel threatened in their little safe world away from the populace?

dileas

tess