SITREP ON MILITIA INFANTRY UNITS

[TCBF]

Seems to me, we should dump all of this touchy-feeley MHR stuff and get back to man management.  When the unit goes on tour, it ALL goes on tour.  External orgs can fill the holes.

We should stand up a reserve unit every year for a two year active force stint.  Give it a tour from the 16 month point on.  Start with a Newfie bn, then NB, then Quebec, then Ont, etc, if a unit can't fill the slot, they loose it.  All recruiting in their area goes to fill that Regt.  Wanna be a widget tech?  Ya gotta do two years in the 4th bn of the Foreskin Fusileers first.  I believe Prof Marc Milner at UNB thought of this ten years ago.  It would reinforce the unit's position in the community.  It would increase recruiting.  It would cycle through a pool of trained soldiers back to theitr res units.

In the meantime, if we lose ONE soldier releasing from the Reg F because he was dropped from a tour with his bn ONLY because they were mandated to take a reservist - well, that is one too many.  He was expensively trained, and we cannot replace him.

Tom

 

[Haggis]

WOW!!!
I go off to watch NASCAR and all Hades breaks loose!

Great idea, Tom, but one question:  If a guy was born in Quebec but lives in Ontario now could he sign up for back to back tours?

(Since the steering is gone, may as well push this one all the way into the ditch...)

 

[rifleman]

In the meantime, if we lose ONE soldier releasing from the Reg F because he was dropped from a tour with his bn ONLY because they were mandated to take a reservist - well, that is one too many.  He was expensively trained, and we cannot replace him.

Tom

If a soldier gets out. it's their choice. Everyone is replaceable.

...Now whats the sit on the Militia units?

 

[HItorMiss]

So, what is your recommendation for best employing all parts of the system?

I may be wrong, but it seems the "solution" you allude to is to deploy every fit Reg F soldier, maintain the 10% reserve of only reservists (who then likely never deploy, or gain such experiences to train their own soldiers in the unit), and when the crap does hit the fan, these soldiers that you have created as "second class" and "not quite good enough" become your only source of reinforcements?

Sir I stated my idea back in my first post, Leave the CIMIC and D&S Pl jobs to the PRes forces on a deployment, Yes Sir it is less slots but it does not take away from the deploying units jobs and it gives the PRes Units a pool of experienced troops when they return from said operation.

 

[HItorMiss]

If a soldier gets out. it's their choice. Everyone is replaceable.

Are they? I mean after how many 100,000's of dollars do they stop becoming replacable and start becoming a valued commodity that should be held on to so as not to be a waste of money?

Rifleman your view seems foolish and inflammatory

 

[Michael OLeary]

Are they? I mean after how many 100,000's of dollars do they stop becoming replacable and start becoming a valued commodity that should be held on to so as not to be a waste of money?

Rifleman your view seems foolish and inflamtory

How useful do you think a soldier is who wants to get out, but has been informed that he/she must complete their engagement?  We were trying that in the 80s, and many of those soldiers weren't worth keeping at that point.  Many became administrative and disciplinary problems that far outweighed the "advantages" of making them stay.  The cost on unit morale and the unit chain of command from section commander on up to deal with them, some of whom were only trying to force their own releases, was far from cost effective.

 

[HItorMiss]

Sir.

I have yet to meet a person on their first BE that tried to remove himself from the military by the means in which you state, Other then say through VR during the training process, All the others even the disillusioned ones did their 3 yrs and got out, taking in mind that by the timed they reached Bn they really only had 1.5 yrs left of said contract.

You can break contract on your second BE as you well know and other then the 6 months you need to wait for all the paper work I have yet to see an issue with that either...

 

[rifleman]

Are they? I mean after how many 100,000's of dollars do they stop becoming replacable and start becoming a valued commodity that should be held on to so as not to be a waste of money?

Rifleman your view seems foolish and inflammatory

How so? I'm just pointing out that if a soldier feels he is hard done by he knows his options. And sometimes its time to cut our losses earlier, than to continue spending money on him, when he is going to quit the next time he doesn't like something? Thats a waste

Reserves are a component of the CF and using them operationally in the trade that they have been trained to do. Absolutely nothing foolish about it.

Plus when I deploy I would rather have troops from my regiment back home, looking after the families of my personnel than someone who doesn't know anyone. And if that means shovelling Mrs. Smith's walkway, so be it.

 

[Michael OLeary]

You have yet to see it in your service, but I have seen it in mine, which started somewhat before yours.  Removing the option to 'break' a contract to protect the 'investment' as you describe could recreate that scenario.

 

[HItorMiss]

Sir At what point did I infer the removal of the break contract system?

Rifleman the use of "if you don't like it get out" is all well and good, however take into account how many good soldiers your going to loose with that? And no not the ones that take a hissy fit or feel hard done by but those thet genuienly love the military but get sick of hearing that atitude and just sayd fine you want me gone so bad I am out of here.... Trust me I have come close to that feeling a few times. Luckly I had great NCO's that saw it coming and headed me off at the pass.

The way I read your statment seemed more of a slight on good troops feeling put out then as a valid constructive point.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Sir At what point did I infer the removal of the break contract system?

Perhaps when you said this:

Are they? I mean after how many 100,000's of dollars do they stop becoming replacable and start becoming a valued commodity that should be held on to so as not to be a waste of money?

 

[Haggis]

Sir I stated my idea back in my first post, Leave the CIMIC and D&S Pl jobs to the PRes forces on a deployment, Yes Sir it is less slots but it does not take away from the deploying units jobs and it gives the PRes Units a pool of experienced troops when they return from said operation.

Yep, 6 months of gate at Mirage is just the kind of experience Reserve units need in order to grow and improve.  And not every Reserve unit does CIMIC.  Only about 30 soldiers per area fill thst role (under 200 in the entire Army Reserve).

How does Reserve leadership (above Pl WO/PL Comd) stand to gain operational experience? Or should we rape Reg F units to fill Reserve senior positions?

 

[rifleman]

Sir At what point did I infer the removal of the break contract system?

Rifleman the use of "if you don't like it get out" is all well and good, however take into account how many good soldiers your going to loose with that? And no not the ones that take a hissy fit or feel hard done by but those thet genuienly love the military but get sick of hearing that atitude and just sayd fine you want me gone so bad I am out of here.... Trust me I have come close to that feeling a few times. Luckly I had great NCO's that saw it coming and headed me off at the pass.

The way I read your statment seemed more of a slight on good troops feeling put out then as a valid constructive point.

Guess it depends on what defines a 'good soldier'

How were my points not constructive? I have avocated that Reservists are trained and should be deployed in their trades. I say this from the point of view that it has been decided that Reserves will deploy. It isn't about stealing jobs and anyone who uses that as a justification to his troops needs to check his attitude.

Sometimes I believe people don't want the truth, they just want to hear what they think is the truth.

 

[HItorMiss]

Sir.

I'm not sure how you think that was infered however I didn;t mean for it to be, I agree whole heratedly with the contract system as it used to stand (don't get me started on this new 25yrs nonsense)What I ment was when that BE is up and the soldier says see you later think of how much was wasted on him all because he lost a tour slot or some such.

Haggis the D&S Pl to my knowledge is doing gate and local patrols( on Roto 3 Julien it was a 2km bubble) in Theater not Mirage, I could be wrong though about the Local patrols. And I said it would be less slots but a comprimse none the less.

 

[HItorMiss]

If a soldier gets out. it's their choice. Everyone is replaceable.

I just really didn't think that was needed or constructive to the conversation. Could just be me though heck I have been wrong once or twice.

 

[Haggis]

Haggis the D&S Pl to my knowledge is doing gate and local patrols( on Roto 3 Julien it was a 2km bubble) in Theater not Mirage, I could be wrong though about the Local patrols. And I said it would be less slots but a comprimse none the less.

True at Julien, but we're not there anymore and I'm unsure who does D&S in Kandahar. Mirage, though, is still gate, gate and more gate.

(I'll admit I made the statement to keep with the pervasive theme that Reserves should be relegated to the least glamourous jobs, if they are allowed to deploy at all.)

Secondly, leadership experience gained is at the Sect/Pl Comd level.  You never answered my other question.  How do Army Reserve senior leaders get operational experience that is both recent and relevant?  Before you answer that, let me put things into a bigger picture:

A Naval Reserve CPO2 can be (and is regularly) employed as coxswain (RSM) of a minor warship on real-world ops.  An Air Reserve MWO can be the Senior Aviation Maintenance Supervisor (SAMS) of an operational flying squadron.  How is an Army Reserve MWO expected to gain equitable operational experience if we deploy no higher than Pl level leadership?

Taking this one step further, operational experience is well known as a stepping  stone to senior leadership.  Given this scenario, the CF Reserve senior leadership could very well be Navy and Air Force dominated.  What effect would that have on the Army Reserve's existance?

 

[HItorMiss]

I'm going to take allot of fire on this one...

Haggis there is no way in god's green earth I would deploy with a Reservist as my Section 2i/c or above, not now not ever.

It comes down to this I am a 7yr Reg Force Cpl...That Reserve MCpl or Sgt etc etc has alto less experience then me in just about everything you could name let alone days in, I would find my life unnecessarily endagered by that person being in charge when he is clearly not ready for it.

So I can honestly say I have no idea how to rectify the problem you put forth

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

My sister the "reservist" has 24 years reg time, 5 tours,.......not now,not ever?

 

[rifleman]

I'm going to take allot of fire on this one...

Haggis there is no way in god's green earth I would deploy with a Reservist as my Section 2i/c or above, not now not ever.

It comes down to this I am a 7yr Reg Force Cpl...That Reserve MCpl or Sgt etc etc has alto less experience then me in just about everything you could name let alone days in, I would find my life unnecessarily endagered by that person being in charge when he is clearly not ready for it.

So I can honestly say I have no idea how to rectify the problem you put forth

Then I guess you should be the 10% that stays back. Nice and safe.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

...or awol.