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Sniper/Long Range Rifles

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1026271952413_269


Cdn snipers lauded as experts in Afghan action

Canadian Press

A world-record shot by a Canadian sniper detachment could never have been made with the ammunition they were issued when they left Edmonton last winter, the triggerman said in a recent interview.

The Canadian .50-calibre rounds have a maximum range of between 2,200 and 2,300 metres. The U.S. rounds, they discovered, "fly farther, faster," said Cpl. "Bill", a 26-year-old native of Fogo Island, Nfld. The two-man Canadian team, coupled with American Sgt. Zevon Durham of Greenville, S.C., made the kill from 2,430 metres on the second shot. The first blew a bag from the hand of their target, an al-Qaida fighter walking on a road.

"He didn't even flinch," said Bill, who spoke to The Canadian Press on condition that his real name not be used.

"We made a correction and the next round hit exactly where we wanted it to. Well, a bit to the right."

The kill, one of more than 20 unofficially accredited to Canadian snipers during Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan's Shah-i-Kot Valley, beat the 35-year-old record of 2,500 yards, or 2,250 metres, set by U.S. Marine Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock in Duc Pho, South Vietnam.

Soldier of Fortune magazine estimated the number of kills made by the Canadians after talking to several U.S. soldiers in Kandahar for a cover story in its August edition.

The snipers themselves will not confirm the figure.

But judging from accounts given by Canadians involved in the first major coalition offensive of the Afghan war, the figure of at least 20 sounds conservative.

Outfitted with British desert fatigues and an array of equipment from all over the world, the five Canadians divided into two detachments earned the respect of their American brothers-in-arms after helping rescue dozens of paratroopers pinned down by enemy fire.

The five have been nominated for one of the highest awards given by the United States military - the Bronze Star, two of them with Vs for Valor, marking exceptional bravery.

Awarding of the American medal, which was to have been done at a ceremony along with other Anaconda veterans in Kandahar in April, has been delayed by Canadian protocol officials.

But more important to the Canadians are the gestures from their American brethren who, while nearly killing them several times over with friendly fire, owe many lives to their shooting skills.

"They trusted us to do our job, without question," said Master Cpl. "James", a 31-year-old native of Kingsville, Ont., who also asked that his identity not be revealed.

At one point during a series of battles, one of the Canadians was without his rifle. Enemy bullets were hitting the earth all around.

Mortars were dropping in front and behind them, some within 10 metres, bracketing their position and getting closer all the time.

"They really hammered us," said Bill.

He tried to get to their rifles but couldn't. Finally, an American sniper tossed him his rifle and said: "Here, you know how to use this better than I do."

They held off the enemy until darkness descended and they escaped.

"They were instrumental in helping us achieve our goals out there," said 1st Lieut. Justin Overbaugh, 25, of Missoula, Mont., the soldier who recommended Bill and James for Bronze Stars.

"They are professionals; they are very good at what they do; they train hard, they are very mature, they are tactically and technically proficient so when it came time to do business, they were on," he said.

"If they told me I was going out right now, I'd be begging, kicking, screaming, crying for them to come with us."
Bill and James said they pulled off several shots from 2,400 metres or more.

"Shots out that far are 60 per cent skill and 40 per cent luck, or vice versa," said Bill. "Usually, it takes two or three rounds, sometimes five.

"Normally, a sniper wouldn't take that many shots, but they were out so far we felt confident they couldn't tell where we were."

At daybreak one morning, the two Canadians were set up overlooking a compound when al-Qaida fighters started "pouring out of buildings like ants."

Bill started shooting while James called in a mortar attack, followed by B-52, F-16 and Apache helicopter strikes.
In a separate incident, Bill and James found themselves looking up at a large dark object screaming out of the sky directly above them.

It was a 220-kilogram American bomb.

"We hit the deck and covered our heads with our hands," said James.

The bomb landed 30 metres away, nose in, and never went off.

Bill and James looked at each other in disbelief.

"By the grace of God, it was a dud," said Bill. "It landed 15 metres from the B company (U.S. 101st Airborne Division) trenches. A guy got up, walked out of the trench and kicked the thing."

On another occasion, an Apache fired a missile right over their heads. It slammed into a rock wall 200 metres behind them. The snipers took it all in stride.

"Unless you have walked in their shoes or been part of a Special Forces unit, you cannot understand the closeness in proximity that a sniper is to the enemy," said Capt. Paul Madej, Operation Enduring Freedom chaplain, who debriefed the Canadians.

"The Canadian snipers are professional, well-trained soldiers who walk into harm's way and fulfilled their mission. They represent the best and they have our respect."
 
pappy said:
...one never forgets the effects of counter-sniper ops with Naval Gunfire.   No need to find the eacact window thier shooting from, you take out the entire building...


And when there are non-combatants living in that building as well?  The excuse that it's them or us is not a viable answer either because as soldiers we've accepted the responsibility of being in the line of fire, they haven't and shouldn't be blown to shit just because some coward on the other side of the line decided to use their house or school or temple as his/her hide. 

It's about time that we realized that arty is no longer a viable answer to our problems on the battlefield except in extreme cases.  One sniper is certainly not extreme enough.
 
Adair said:
pappy said:
...one never forgets the effects of counter-sniper ops with Naval Gunfire.   No need to find the eacact window thier shooting from, you take out the entire building...


And when there are non-combatants living in that building as well?   The excuse that it's them or us is not a viable answer either because as soldiers we've accepted the responsibility of being in the line of fire, they haven't and shouldn't be blown to crap just because some coward on the other side of the line decided to use their house or school or temple as his/her hide.  

It's about time that we realized that arty is no longer a viable answer to our problems on the battlefield except in extreme cases.   One sniper is certainly not extreme enough.

well there was a lot more then one sniper and we where forced to ignore it for weeks, and the buildings where long abandoned, they were shooting at and hitting Marines, no sympthy to those in the buildings.    Politcal correctness does not win wars.  In my opinion the sooner we learn that the better.  I doubt you will find one single war in history that civialians haven't taken it in the shorts, life is not fair in the best of times, it's even worse in wartime.  When the lives of of your friends and brothers in arms are at stake there is no time for compassion for the enemy.  If you think giving the enemy a big hug will get them to stop killing your friends, well I hope you never find yourself in that position.  You have your opinion, your entitled to it, I don't agree with you but that is my right as well. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Politcal Correctness ends when the bullets start zipping overhead.  You'll find sympathy in the dictonary between sh#$ and Syphillis, very rarely on the battlefield.  Just one Marines opinion.

I hope you don't need to watch your friend bleed and die because one of your politicians is afriad to hurt the enemies feelings.  Again, you have your own feelings about it, so be it. no need to start a long thread, we'll just have to disagree. 
 
Just asked by a friend what the status on the Timnerwolf is. Has it completely replaced the C3A1?
 
Sort of,
  MG34 maybe able to clarify more -- we went shooting with a few people last weekend.
One of the in the know guys stated that PGW would soon be rebuilding C3A1's into a .308/7.62x51 C-14 trainer so the .338LM C-14 does not bankrupt the army both in ammo and shotout barrels.

 
In terms of use in Sniper Det on operations yes the TimberWolf has replaced the C3. However the C3 is still being used as a DM system within the Coy's. And as I6 pointed out that program is in effect as well.
 
It cant possible be a DM rifle  :o -as DLR has stated we have no need  ;)
 
Infidel-6 said:
Sort of,
  MG34 maybe able to clarify more -- we went shooting with a few people last weekend.
One of the in the know guys stated that PGW would soon be rebuilding C3A1's into a .308/7.62x51 C-14 trainer so the .338LM C-14 does not bankrupt the army both in ammo and shotout barrels.

good lord, that sounds almost like an intelligent thing to do, are you sure this is our army we are talking about?  ;)
 
I thought all the old C3's were pretty much out of service, except a few for shooting teams?
 
I thought all the old C3's were pretty much out of service, except a few for shooting teams?

They're recently been pushed out to rifle coys for use overseas.
 
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