So You Want to be Charles Atlas

[Humphrey Bogart]

I know that excessive weight is usually more common but being 6'3'' at 160Lb does not give me
any back or shoulder support. I can use some good expertise as on how to gain weight which seems
impossible with my my ultra-fast metabolism. I am scheduled for BMQ next summer, so I want to build
good back support for all that heavy weight-carry exercises. I don't have much experience with machines
in the gym as my past sport was swimming.

-Thanks



Stronglifts 5x5 http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/

this program will help you build some good functional strength, I use it and it works really well.  Its 3 times a week complete total body workouts everytime, mostly all olympics lifts and body weight exercises, you will be working a lot of stabilizers and fast-twitch muscles which for army stuff is what you want

[Edit to spell "weight" correctly so that people using the SEARCH function will be able to find this topic more easily.]

 

[Ascendant]

The Olympics lifts are the clean & jerk and the snatch.

Strong lifts contains the "big three": Squat, bench, deadlift.

I'm not a fan of only 1x5 DLs a week, but for a beginner, if you're squatting twice a week, you'd probably need to keep it that low.

 

[scottyg]

Hey...some advice for you with working out...try doing chest+triceps (add a bit of shoulders), back+biceps (add a bit of shoulders), and legs and abs for 3 seperate days. Then your fourth day can be spent on cardio. Then repeat for the 5th day, or take a resting day.

I say this because while doing chest your triceps are also working to push the bar up. In fact they work quite a lot, so doing the extra tricep workout after chest breaks your muscle down even more. Same with back and biceps.

Also, try to limit your workout to 50mins-1hour10mins, best to shoot for an hour, because anything over that usually has a reverse effect. Also, remember it is not only protein that you need to rebuild muscles, which is why you should drink chocolate milk after workouts instead of protein shakes. Protein shakes generally do not offer the quality protein that real food does.

Furthermore, to build up strength, start doing dumbbells for chest and your other excersises instead of the bar. Dumbbells require you to stabilize the weight and work more muscles than just a bar. Also, try different methods of pronation when doing these.

My current chest workout is like this:
sets: 12reps-10reps-8reps
65 pounds, 70 pounds, 75 pounds* (technically double because you will have two in your hands)
for flat bench

for incline bench I decrease to 50-55-60, and for decline bench I do 55-60-65...remember start with 12 reps, then 10 reps, then 8 reps.

do flat bench, incline bench, and decline bench (using dumbells for all), then do the pec deck, and then shoulder press, and then include triceps, such as skullcrushers and the pulldown....also, if you are up to it include some resistance training in the decline stage of the workout...I nromally put 45 on each side (*I move from dumbells to a bench with a bar) and go down reallly slow and hold it just above my chest for 2 seconds, then push it back up fast. This helps build your strength. If you have any questions let me know....keep on it...

 

[Ascendant]

Hey...some advice for you with working out...try doing chest+triceps (add a bit of shoulders), back+biceps (add a bit of shoulders), and legs and abs for 3 seperate days. Then your fourth day can be spent on cardio. Then repeat for the 5th day, or take a resting day.

I say this because while doing chest your triceps are also working to push the bar up. In fact they work quite a lot, so doing the extra tricep workout after chest breaks your muscle down even more. What does "breaking muscle down" have to do with anything. Same with back and biceps.

Also, try to limit your workout to 50mins-1hour10mins, best to shoot for an hour, because anything over that usually has a reverse effect. Nice broscience. Also, remember it is not only protein that you need to rebuild muscles, which is why you should drink chocolate milk after workouts instead of protein shakes. This makes little sense. Of course you need more than protein, people just use whey post workout because it is a fast digesting source of protein. There's no point in getting in the subject of nutrient timing, though, because that is just a can of worms. You relaise chocolate milk is just normal milk with sugar/flavoring, right? Protein shakes generally do not offer the quality protein that real food does. That's why it is called a supplement

Furthermore, to build up strength, start doing dumbbells for chest and your other excersises instead of the bar. Dumbbells require you to stabilize the weight and work more muscles than just a bar. While this is partly true, to build up strength, you would actually want to use the bar. You know why? Using the bar = you moving more weight = you getting stornger. Also, try different methods of pronation when doing these.

My current chest workout is like this:
sets: 12reps-10reps-8reps
65 pounds, 70 pounds, 75 pounds* (technically double because you will have two in your hands)
for flat bench

for incline bench I decrease to 50-55-60, and for decline bench I do 55-60-65...remember start with 12 reps, then 10 reps, then 8 reps. Please explain why you use that set/rep scheme. Sounds like something straight out of a bodybuilding magazine.

do flat bench, incline bench, and decline bench (using dumbells for all), then do the pec deck, Flat and incline, yes. Decline, why? If you busted your ass on flat bench, there's no need to do incline and decline. Same applies to the pec deck... and then shoulder press, and then include triceps, such as skullcrushers and the pulldown....also, if you are up to it include some resistance training in the decline stage of the workout...I nromally put 45 on each side (*I move from dumbells to a bench with a bar) and go down reallly slow and hold it just above my chest for 2 seconds, then push it back up fast. Again, why so many exercises? If you have enough left in you to do all this stuff, work harder. Also, that whole thing about lowering is slowly and holding it just above your chest...No. That is both pointless and silly. Negative training, which is similar to what you describe, may have some useful applications, but the majority of trainees just need to work on getting stornger. Period. This helps build your strength. If you have any questions let me know....keep on it...

...

 

[Latrine2]

Owa,

Career availability in the CF can change fairly quickly. Just a couple weeks ago they had Infantry Soldier positions available. I haven't checked since, but call your CFRC to see if your preferred career is available.

Good to see your journal, I can see the similarities between our situations; a lot of us must all be in the same boat on recruiting and training.

The only piece of advice I could give you with respect to your fitness training is to bear in mind the Cardio and Running elements of BMQ. The CF fitness literature includes a guideline of being able to do a 2.4 KM run in 11:56 or less to pass the 20m Shuttle Run, and in BMQ you will be doing 5 KM runs early on, so make sure you are giving enough focus to Cardio and aiming to exceed the CF expectations for cardio fitness as well as muscular fitness.

I'm on the same path, but our fitness elements are quite different. I do a "boot camp" fitness class that leaves me wiped out 2 times a week at a local gym, and am doing other muscle training myself at home. In addition to this, I found a circuit of blocks around my apt. just a bit over 1 KM from start to finish and have been using this circuit to begin measuring and building on my current Cardio / aerobic fitness with jogging, sprinting, walking, and incline running.

As far as diet... very little fruit, only a Banana once in a while. Not too much Peanut butter and jam, processed foods in general are far too high in calories, I stick with seeds and nuts like raw Almonds, Walnuts, Sunflower seeds. My diet focus is more low-calorie fill-you-up since weight loss is another goal of mine, so lunch is usually a cup of assorted raw veggies (Spinach and Bok Choi are tasteless, but nutritionally fantastic) and maybe a boiled egg, dinner includes more veggies and some protein like a Pork Chop or Chicken breast. I figure my daily calorie intake is between 1500-1800 to lose weight but have enough energy to work out. I still do cheat as well, can't go without a taste of chocolate once in a while, but I avoid all alcohol and even diet drinks/sodas are right out since Aspartame is reportedly very bad on the organs, esp. the Liver. Chilled, filtered tap water is my liquid of choice. That and a metal thermos. There's something about drinking water from a metal cup that makes it much easier to drink for me; from plastic it just doesn't taste the same.

Good luck with all your plans, and perhaps we may even meet up at St. Jean.

Cheers,

Latrine

 

[scottyg]

...

Well first of all Kratos, breaking muscle is how you get bigger....you break the muscle, and then you add protein/carbs/etc in order to build it up again, only it builds up strnger than it was before. The stuff about protein I was making sure he realized it because many people believe protein is all you need in order to successfully build muscle. 50 minutes to 1 hour and 10 minutes because anything after that and you are not being productive enough to cause any successful breaking of your muscles, and it could actually have the reverse effect you want, look it up. I know exactly what chocolate milk is, it contains more sugars and carbohydrates and all that good stuff than white milk though, which is better for you after a workout, and i also know what a supplement is, I am simply making sure he does too.

Lifting more weight does not make you stronger...lifting more weight makes you able to lift more weight (*obviously this will make you stronger in a sense, but many people who can bench 300 pounds cannot do that many pushups...by strength I mean the ability to perform for a long period of time instead of just a short burst of energy)...maybe you could push a 300 pound guy away from you if you benched 300 a lot, but your chest would only be used to the short burst and you would not have any real strength if it came down to more than just a short burst of energy...which is why football players (such as the o-line and d-line) regularly do max bench to increase their ability to push a lot of weight in that short burst, and people like wrestlers do lower weight but more reps and slower, and have sustained strength.

LOL, decline and incline work different parts of your chest than flat bench...trust me the flat bench is not the be all and end all of chest, there are better workouts than just that for sure. And it is good to do a lot of workouts in a short period of time so you can increase your muscular strength, like what I was saying up there.

And negative/resistance training is one of the best ways to get cut/jacked/strong, look it up....it makes obvious sense, you are resisting the weight and therefore your muscles are straining more than they would if they were just pushing the weight...

Like George Wallace and other people always say, "please use the search function" (for you it is located in Google) before you try to criticize me or make a point, because clearly you do not know what you are talking about.

Also Kratos, the sugar in chocolate milk is beneficial to your muscles, that is why chocolate milk is the recommended drink after a workout...

Furthermore, 12-10-8 set/reps would be the opposite of what is found in a bodybuilding magazine...bodybuilders try to get as big as they can...which is why they would do more weight and less reps....12 reps 10 reps 8 reps is designed to promote your strength while still building muscle.

And for new recruits to build muscle like you say would be the opposite of what they need for the army. I understand the army BMQ and everything else require a high level of cardio, and cardio is harder to do when you are weighed down with excess muscle. Also, like I said before, it would be harder to bodyweight excersizes, like pushups and chinups...which are mandatory in order for his success.

And please, take some time to evaluate yourself and your working out habits, go talk to a personal trainer, because I do not think you are headed in the right direction.

 

[Ascendant]

Well first of all Kratos, breaking muscle is how you get bigger....you break the muscle, and then you add protein/carbs/etc in order to build it up again, only it builds up strnger than it was before. No, it will rebuild bigger and maybe slightly stronger, but I think you should educate yourself on the difference between sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar hypertrophy. I'm not going to get into here. The stuff about protein I was making sure he realized it because many people believe protein is all you need in order to successfully build muscle. 50 minutes to 1 hour and 10 minutes because anything after that and you are not being productive enough to cause any successful breaking of your muscles, Again, this "breaking of your muscles" thing. Please show me a scientific study that demonstrates working out for longer than an hour as ineffective. I know very, very strong people whose sessions rarely if ever last LESS than an hour. You're spouting garbageand it could actually have the reverse effect you want, look it up. No, YOU look it up. You're the one trying to prove it. I know exactly what chocolate milk is, it contains more sugars and carbohydrates and all that good stuff than white milk though, Cool. There are better carb sources than chocolate milk. which is better for you after a workout, and i also know what a supplement is, I am simply making sure he does too.

Lifting more weight does not make you stronger...Yes...It does.lifting more weight makes you able to lift more weight (*obviously this will make you stronger in a sense, but many people who can bench 300 pounds cannot do that many pushups...by strength I mean the ability to perform for a long period of time instead of just a short burst of energy)...maybe you could push a 300 pound guy away from you if you benched 300 a lot, but your chest would only be used to the short burst and you would not have any real strength if it came down to more than just a short burst of energy You can train for both....which is why football players (such as the o-line and d-line) regularly do max bench to increase their ability to push a lot of weight in that short burst, and people like wrestlers do lower weight but more reps and slowerNo, they don't., and have sustained strength.

LOL, decline and incline work different parts of your chest than flat bench...I knew you were going to say this. This is the typical, uneducated way of thinking. Your pec is a muscle. There is no "upper" pec or "lower" pec. A muscle is a muscle. One single muscle. Not lower, upper, mid, etc. Hey man, can you tell me how to make my upper-mid-left pec stronger and bigger?trust me the flat bench is not the be all and end all of chestYes, it is., there are better workouts than just that for sure. And it is good to do a lot of workouts in a short period of time so you can increase your muscular strengthI think you mean muscular endurance., like what I was saying up there.

And negative/resistance training is one of the best ways to get cut/jacked/strong, look it up.... LOL. What does "cut" and "jacked" have to do with performance?it makes obvious sense, you are resisting the weight and therefore your muscles are straining more than they would if they were just pushing the weight...Like I said, some people employ the usage of negative training with weights higher than there 1RM as a way of overloading their CNS, but for most trainees, it is unnecessary and a waste of time.

Like George Wallace and other people always say, "please use the search function" (for you it is located in Google) before you try to criticize me or make a point, because clearly you do not know what you are talking about. No, my friend, YOU please use the search function. Start getting your info from sources other than bodybuilding magazines, written by some nerd in a cubicle. I don't claim to know everything, but I'll sure as hell go out on a limb and say I know more than you.

Also Kratos, the sugar in chocolate milk is beneficial to your muscles, that is why chocolate milk is the recommended drink after a workout...As I said above, there are other sources of fast acting carbs. I do love me some chocolate milk, though.

Furthermore, 12-10-8 set/reps would be the opposite of what is found in a bodybuilding magazine...bodybuilders try to get as big as they can...which is why they would do more weight and less reps....12 reps 10 reps 8 reps is designed to promote your strength while still building muscle. Lol, again, educate yourself a bit more. You have it the exact opposite of how it works. Less weight + higher reps = more hypertrophy. More weight + lower reps = less hypertrophy. If you still don't believe me, I can post a chart that should make this point very clear for you.

And for new recruits to build muscle like you say would be the opposite of what they need for the army. I understand the army BMQ and everything else require a high level of cardio, and cardio is harder to do when you are weighed down with excess muscle. Also, like I said before, it would be harder to bodyweight excersizes, like pushups and chinups...which are mandatory in order for his success.

And please, take some time to evaluate yourself and your working out habits, go talk to a personal trainer, because I do not think you are headed in the right direction. No. I think you should. I am helped and informed by very, very strong people. My "habits" are fine. I think you are the one who should take a step back.

You really want to get into this? I hate turning people's threads into this banter, but I hate bad information even more. Oh, most personal trainers are garbage. I would never speak to one for advice on anything, let alone how to get bigger and stronger.

Edited for unnecessary material.

 

[PMedMoe]

Take it to PMs, please.

 

[aesop081]

You really want to get into this?

You know what i like about fitness talk ?

Everyone out there seems to be the one who has all the right answers, knows best and everyone else i just garbage. I dont care if you can deadlift Rita McNeal with one arm tied behind your back, you are just one guy with one opinion and its worth the same as everyone elses.

I have seen all kinds of roid monkeys and star athletes turn into incapable blobs over the years and that enough for me to ignore most of you fitness nuts.

 

[Ascendant]

You know what i like about fitness talk ?

Everyone out there seems to be the one who has all the right answers, knows best and everyone else i just garbage. I dont care if you can deadlift Rita McNeal with one arm tied behind your back, you are just one guy with one opinion and its worth the same as everyone elses.

I have seen all kinds of roid monkeys and star athletes turn into incapable blobs over the years and that enough for me to ignore most of you fitness nuts.

No. I never claimed to have all the right answers, and there certainly are things in the training industry that vary based on opinion and preference. Some things, however, do not. When I see these certain things, you bet I'm going to point them out.

I'm not a fitness nut either, but please feel free to ignore me anyway.

 

[SeanNewman]

The only things you need to get jacked are SizeOn and a job in KAF that your boss doesn't care about that allows you unlimited gym hours.

 

[scottyg]

You really want to get into this? I hate turning people's threads into this banter, but I hate bad information even more. Oh, most personal trainers are garbage. I would never speak to one for advice on anything, let alone how to get bigger and stronger.

Edited for unnecessary material.

"Well first of all Kratos, breaking muscle is how you get bigger....you break the muscle, and then you add protein/carbs/etc in order to build it up again, only it builds up strnger than it was before. No, it will rebuild bigger and maybe slightly stronger, but I think you should educate yourself on the difference between sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar hypertrophy. I'm not going to get into here. "

So then you agree with me...cool.

I never said chocolate milk was the best source of carbs lmao, i said it was the best thing to drink after a workout.

Trust me buddy, I know the whole football team at my university, and all of the o-line and d-line go for short burst strength, which is why they do max bench.

"LOL, decline and incline work different parts of your chest than flat bench...I knew you were going to say this. This is the typical, uneducated way of thinking. Your pec is a muscle. There is no "upper" pec or "lower" pec. A muscle is a muscle. One single muscle. Not lower, upper, mid, etc. Hey man, can you tell me how to make my upper-mid-left pec stronger and bigger?trust me the flat bench is not the be all and end all of chestYes, it is., there are better workouts than just that for sure. And it is good to do a lot of workouts in a short period of time so you can increase your muscular strengthI think you mean muscular endurance., like what I was saying up there."

Yes, they work different parts refer here....http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n39/iskender73/muscle_diagram.jpg
Pectoralis Major and Pectoralis Minor...your right though I did mean muscular endurance....and while doing decline and incline, it works more muscles in your arms and shoulders than you would just doing flat bench. If you honestly believe flat bench is the best chest excersize you are sadly mistaken.

"And negative/resistance training is one of the best ways to get cut/jacked/strong, look it up.... LOL. What does "cut" and "jacked" have to do with performance?it makes obvious sense, you are resisting the weight and therefore your muscles are straining more than they would if they were just pushing the weight...Like I said, some people employ the usage of negative training with weights higher than there 1RM as a way of overloading their CNS, but for most trainees, it is unnecessary and a waste of time."

Cut and jacked dont, how about you look at the word after cut/jacked STRONG. And why would strength training ever be unnecessary, especially for someone whose main purpose is to get strong?

I have never read a bodybuilding magazine, I take my knowledge from personal trainers and people in kinesiology, who actually understand how the human body works.

I find the less weight more reps thing and more hypertrophy to be invalid so yeah I would like for you to post a chart on that.

 

[Ascendant]

Like I said, you need to educate yourself on the difference between sarcoplasmic and myfibrillar hypertrophy, then you'll understand what I'm talking about.

You're not going to argue with Mark Rippetoe now, aren't you?

 

[scottyg]

Like I said, you need to educate yourself on the difference between sarcoplasmic and myfibrillar hypertrophy, then you'll understand what I'm talking about.

You're not going to argue with Mark Rippetoe now, aren't you?

You're the one who said I read bodybuilding magazines, but then you throw in a name like Mark Rippetoe...lol....And yeah I believe you now I guess you are right for the increase in size, as I looked it up after I made the last message. But it depends on how you look at high reps and low reps....I have never heard of anyone lifting any less than 8 reps per set, and that is still well within a "good range". Either way, half the things you said were ridiculous, you cannot expect to sit on a bench press and have an all-around good chest, and yes incline and decline work different parts of the chest/arms/shoulders.

 

[aesop081]

 

[scottyg]

I agree with the facepalm as we have hijacked this thread and turned it into a useless argument, but for my last LOL of the evening I just want to quote Kratos.

"You really want to get into this? I hate turning people's threads into this banter, but I hate bad information even more. Oh, most personal trainers are garbage. I would never speak to one for advice on anything, let alone how to get bigger and stronger."

thats dumb.

 

[Ascendant]

You're the one who said I read bodybuilding magazines, but then you throw in a name like Mark Rippetoe...lol....And yeah I believe you now I guess you are right for the increase in size, as I looked it up after I made the last message. But it depends on how you look at high reps and low reps....I have never heard of anyone lifting any less than 8 reps per set, and that is still well within a "good range". Either way, half the things you said were ridiculous, you cannot expect to sit on a bench press and have an all-around good chest, and yes incline and decline work different parts of the chest/arms/shoulders.

What's wrong with Mark Rippetoe? He has nothing to do with bodybuilding and is probably the most highly regarded beginner/intermediate strength coach out there. Starting Strength and Starting Strength Second Edition are two of the best training books ever produced. With that said, I don't understand what you're saying there.

Seriously? There are tons of people who lift under eight reps for the main lifts (ie. Squat, bench, DL). I don't do anything over 5 for those three, with majority of the work done at three and under. Some of the strongest guys I know don't do anything more than singles.

How are they ridiculous? You're still saying "good" chest as if your talking about aesthetics. I know guys benching high 300s - mid 400s that don't do incline or decline. They probably don't know what they're doing, though.

And no, it's not dumb.

You can have absolutely no training background, go do a one day course and become a "certified" personal trainers. Please.

I speak to the ones that work at my gym on occasion and hear the advice they give out. It makes me want to stab my ear drums out.

Plus, I really like the "proof is in the pudding" idea. Why would I ask a 150 lb weak person for advice on how to become strong? I wouldn't.

 

[aesop081]

Why would I ask a 150 lb weak person for advice on how to become strong? I wouldn't.

Fuck you're funny..........

 

[Fusaki]

You know what i like about fitness talk ?

Everyone out there seems to be the one who has all the right answers, knows best and everyone else i just garbage. I dont care if you can deadlift Rita McNeal with one arm tied behind your back, you are just one guy with one opinion and its worth the same as everyone elses.

I have seen all kinds of roid monkeys and star athletes turn into incapable blobs over the years and that enough for me to ignore most of you fitness nuts.

You're right. Everyone thinks they have the best way.

But...

The training principles that Kratos is describing are being applied by REAL soldiers on REAL courses.  His advice is VERY much in line with the solid advice Stymiest offered in the Infantry Officer Phase 3 thread:

1.  Get in Shape - so many people couldn't hack the course because they just couldn't physically manage the training

My training that I do - You will not be doing that much running for some reason the CF loves jogging to tell you the truth you would be better served taking your rucksack putting around 60 lbs in it and going for a nice march.  I did this for a month and a half before course and it served me well, try to build yourself up so you can do a BFT in about a 1 hour 50 min timeframe, oh and wear boots when you do this, your not going to be using sneakers in the field so why would you wear them for training.

Also, lift weights and lots of them, but by weight lifting I am not talking about bodybuilding weightlifting, aka doing a bi and tri day then stairing at your pecks in the mirror, you should be following an olympic lifting program, i.e. 3 times a week of power lifting 5x5 stronglifts is a good program here is a link http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/ This type of training will strengthen your core, back and leg muscles, and is a total body workout.  Its also super easy to follow, and you will see massive benefits if you do follow it.

The 5x5 program that Stymiest recommends (based on his experience on one of the most demanding courses in the infantry) is just one interpretation of the strength training method Kratos is recommending here. 

 

[Ascendant]

frig you're funny..........

I really don't see what problem you have with that statement.

Would you ask some guy who only ever played minor hockey what it takes to make it to the NHL?

Would you ask someone who only played tee ball how to get to the MLB?

Sorry, but if I walk into a gym looking to get strong and see two people: Some skinny, running shoe wearing "personal trainer" and a 280 lb guy over in the corner with chalk on his hands, Chuck Taylors on his feet, belt around his waist, doing deadlifts, I think I know which one I'll go to for help.