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Stupid question about Basic - Aggression

SIGH.

It's this very "non-aggressive" "PC pandering" image which has emasculated the Canadian army for decades now.  Canada doesn't have soldiers, we have peace keepers.  Not like the big nasty US. 

US marines rock.  They treat them like crap too.  Seriously, you want that kind of treatment, infact Canada could do more in this department.  I've seen our soldiers on parade, they are terrible at drill.  Go watch the British highlanders or US marines silent drill squad.  That shows disipline by means of harsh treatment.  Non-aggressive training will do nothing for you as a budding soldier.
 
Scipio

Could you clarify your comment a bit?  I was wondering where you saw Canadians doing Drill that was so terrible?  I know that they would not have been a Precision Drill Team like the US Marine Silent Drill Team, but I am really curious as to how bad you felt they were?  Perhaps telling us who they were and under what circumstance would clear up in our minds what actually may have happened.
 
I saw groups from the Air Force, Navy, and Army march during a remembrence day cermoney.  They were totally out of sync, it was almost embarrising.  I could not believe that the march was not practiced and held to a standard.  Arms went arwy, legs out of sync, etc...

I'm not bashing our military.  I was just a bit put off at the lack of style that march had.  I suppose I shouldn't pigeon hole the entire CF into that category, but it really left a bad impression.

Jack Granastein also commented on this during his book "who killed the canadian military?".  During the early 90's, some British and Canadian soldiers put on a drill show for an audience of politicians and civillians.  Jack (ex CF officer) felt embarssed when the Canadian squad was clearly not on par with our British Counterparts.  Granted, It's hard to beat the Brits; Sandhurst has beaten West Point and RMC grads for the past 10 years in skills competition.  But the point did highlight my concern.

Granastein is the main reason I'm joining the CF.  I've read all his books and admire him greatly, he's probably the most loyal lobbyist the CF has in Canada.  I sent him an email and he had encouraging words about the future for the CF.  He said if the Harper government does not commit like the Mulroney cabnet failed too do, he will be shocked.  I was worried about a life time career in the CF, since our (liberal) government has been hell bent on cut backs and silly labels like "boy scouts" for our hard working men.  I did not want to be laid off at 40 years of age, so began looking over seas to join the British Military.  One email from Jack changed my mind, and I have the CF application in hand ready to join (soon as I can safely tuck 2.4 k in 10 mins)

Proper drill really does reflect the state of a military.  For awhile ours was looking pretty neglected, so it's only natural that ceremonial events and routine, such as drill, will be affected.  Canadian boys were to busy in non-stop Peace keeping missions and being over stretched to the fullest during the past decade, along with budget cuts.  So I'm not blaming them. Canadian's are as good as the best when given proper funding.
 
"Canadian boys were to busy in non-stop Peace keeping missions and being over stretched to the fullest during the past decade, along with budget cuts.  So I'm not blaming them. Canadian's are as good as the best when given proper funding"

The Canadian *girls*, on the other hand, were sitting on their collective asses eating bon-bons while the *boys* were busy with peacekeeping, right?  ::)

From

Scoutfinch... a non-boy.
 
Scipio:

Quote: I saw groups from the Air Force, Navy, and Army march during a remembrence day cermoney.  They were totally out of sync, it was almost embarrising.  I could not believe that the march was not practiced and held to a standard.  Arms went arwy, legs out of sync, etc...

Reply: I do not doubt it; it takes practice for formations to conduct perfect marching technique; most remembrance day ceremonies get 2 days practice and thats only for sizing, forming threes and practicing getting the officers on and off the parade square. Yes, as an Army soldier who worked a lot with the Air Force, it was a constant source of embarassment having to drill with many of these guys because some of them didnt know what they were doing (at some ceremenies I had to assist the unit RSM with rpoper guidelines, like NOT letting the reviewing officer walk between members of the colour party!).  Why? because they were doing more important jobs; making sure we were paid, feeding our troops, repairing aircraft, conducting SAR, flying ammo and food to points overseas.  I'll tell you, when I came in from a road trip across the country-side, I didnt give a damn about a Governer-General visit and the ensuing parade, I wanted the clerk to give me my ration card, then sleep, and eat decent food for the next 12 hours so I could go out and do another 6 days work of 16 hour days on the road each day.   

Quote: Jack Granastein also commented on this during his book "who killed the canadian military?".  During the early 90's, some British and Canadian soldiers put on a drill show for an audience of politicians and civillians.  Jack (ex CF officer) felt emberassed when the Canadian squad was clearly not on par with our British Counterparts.  Granted, It's hard to beat the  Brits; Sandhurst has beaten West Point and RMC grads for the past 10 years in skills competition.  But the point did highlight my concern.

Reply: You want Canadian soldiers to win a 'drill competition'!!!??? For bleep's sake, that is crazy (and a little scary). I'd rather have my soldiers be experts with weapons, tactics and first aid!  Mr. Jack can be embarrased all he wants beacuse frankly before 1990 the only things our guys did was Cyprus, Germany and Golan heights, which allowed a lot of time for "by the left quick march' (not including that hot summer in 74 in Cyprus for our airborne boys who were there when the Turks decided to do some land speculation - apologies to other who were in tight spots before 1990 that I cant recall at the moment).

Quote: Proper drill really does reflect the state of a military.  For awhile ours was looking pretty neglected, so it's only natural that ceremonial events and routine, such as drill, will be affected.  Canadian boys were to busy in non-stop Peace keeping missions and being over stretched to the fullest during the past decade, along with budget cuts.  So I'm not blaming them. Canadian's are as good as the best when given proper funding.

Reply: Ceremony has its time and place.  But there a lot more important things than marching up and down the square.  Drill doesnt reflect our military state, skill with weapons and equipment reflects the military state.  For example, the Gurkhas are as an entity, in my opinion, are the toughest little SOBs and best rifle shots, in the world, bar none.  They will drive themselves to the edge to accomplish their job and maintain their regimental honor.  Now who would I rather have backing me up in a tight spot?  A Squaddie of the First Lord Lieutenants Ottawa Super-Exact Drill Team (Elite), or a Squad of Gurkhas?

Get in, get experience, and get edumacated!

Apologies to Monty Python: "Anyone got anything better to do than marching up and down the SQUARE? Right , you then, what?"
                                        "Sir, Ive got three reports to finish, then clean my weapons, ready vehicle, and leave in 3 hours for my next assignment"
                                        "Right, off you go then!"    .   
 
The Canadian *girls*, on the other hand, were sitting on their collective asses eating bon-bons while the *boys* were busy with peacekeeping, right? 

Feeling a little oppressed! ::) Someone needs to lighten up, "the boys" is only a phrase and when near 90% of deployed troops are "the boys" he is not far off! ::)
 
Just looking for a little accuracy with the Queen's English.

I am not sure why that is such a problem?
 
Scipio said:
SIGH.

It's this very "non-aggressive" "PC pandering" image which has emasculated the Canadian army for decades now.  Canada doesn't have soldiers, we have peace keepers.  Not like the big nasty US. 

WHAT... we're peacekeepers???

You are right out of it.

There is no such thing as a peacekeeper.  Read the other threads on this site.
The only person who is close enough to do the job IS a soldier, but we are not
a peacekeeping force

I really wish you would just close your mouth (keyboard) and open you ears and
eyes to the amount of flack you are causing because you have the wrong attitude
for the Canadian Military.  We would be your colleagues, and we are rejecting you
on almost every post.  If you don't listen to the good advice coming down your way,
I suggest your career will be short and painful.
 
I wont even touch your "Boy's" comment.....

But I will touch the rest of your post about drill;

First off do you have a clue how hard it is to march in a formation that large? no of course not you have never had too, that's because your not CF material yet.

secondly do you know how difficult it is to hear the drum beat in a parade that large? no see my reason I gave above.

your out of your lane and you're trolling and your starting to piss me right off, Sum up.

you want to seek life on this board I suggest reading and less posting, then when you finally pass something you can come here in a few years and Post about how right you are, or you'll eat crow and say "guys wow I was an idiot"

not sure well forgive you but we might at least let you post im peace.

*Edit* I removed somethings cause I think they were just close enough to the line to be un called for
 
Scipio said:
SIGH.

It's this very "non-aggressive" "PC pandering" image which has emasculated the Canadian army for decades now.  Canada doesn't have soldiers, we have peace keepers.  Not like the big nasty US.  


hehehe Peacekeepers.....

OK Sweatheart,

Enough of the trolling.....I do detect something fishy....

I have stated my opinion on this subject publicly ,

Feel free to educate yourself.

dileas

tess
 
Scipio,

Since you seem to be such a proponent of  "harsh discipline" and snappy drill, and hold us (the CF) in such disdain in comparison to our US/UK counterparts, I would suggest that you check this website;http://www.br-legion.com/ang/index.html

I have met at least a half dozen former members of this organisation now, if you were to join, and return to Canada, you could undoubtedly give us all a lesson in harsh treatment and snappy drill, and as an added benefit, you would be in top physical condition and be fluent in the "other" official language of this country.

Since you are training to join this military, I can only  assume that you have chosen to embrace that which you so disdain - and even more surprisingly, must struggle to achieve it!

A rather interesting conundrum, no?
 
Scipio,
You funny little boy you. You want to be treated mean. You want discipline and screaming and yelling. I hope I get you in my platoon when, if  you finally make it to recruit school. You will not enjoy it. We don't pander to the kids here, even if we don't get as crazy as they did twenty years ago. The recruits work hard on BMQ and even harder on SQ and environmental training, so like the others have said, ziplip and pay attention, there will be a test at the end of the lesson.
 
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