Stupid question about Basic - Aggression
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the 48th regulator
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PM awaiting.
dileas
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dileas
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I will wade in this shallow pool.for anyone to say racism,bias towards sexuality and benefits of the two do not exist they should remove their heads out of their asses.Do I agree with racism?No.Do I know members with swastika's on their chest along with other symbols of hate?Yes.Do I see women who can't do their jobs due to weakness get placed in Gucci jobs?yes.
I've said this about fitness before,we are a small version of Canadian culture.You have the back woodhicks the ex gangbangers from "the T dot" and homosexuals.Depending where you come from and how you were raised is how you will react to these people.If for one minute someone is going to tell me a 2 minute SHARP video is going toreplace someones lifetime of hate etc they are idiots.
Should this happen?No.Is it professional of this Sgt?Defiantly not. I know I've heard comments similar but only in a jovial manner.But alas even in a jovial manner this should not be displayed...blah...blah.. No matter what, it is going to happen until we all blend into a off grey colour, speaking "japaglish" drinking coffee at startbucks.
Why would you have to "call him out"? Unless you know him from the pres....then do tell!
cheers
I've said this about fitness before,we are a small version of Canadian culture.You have the back woodhicks the ex gangbangers from "the T dot" and homosexuals.Depending where you come from and how you were raised is how you will react to these people.If for one minute someone is going to tell me a 2 minute SHARP video is going toreplace someones lifetime of hate etc they are idiots.
Should this happen?No.Is it professional of this Sgt?Defiantly not. I know I've heard comments similar but only in a jovial manner.But alas even in a jovial manner this should not be displayed...blah...blah.. No matter what, it is going to happen until we all blend into a off grey colour, speaking "japaglish" drinking coffee at startbucks.
Why would you have to "call him out"? Unless you know him from the pres....then do tell!
cheers
the 48th regulator
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So you are saying that the Sgt. was telling the truth? Bull pooh!
2006 and he as a Sgt experienced that in this army???
I joined in 1988 with the reserves, as shortbus has, and have never seen that, considering the PC movement of the '90 to the present.
All I ask is people to stop perpetuating the myth, just to sound authoritative for a post.
dileas
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The comment was made towards him in a jokingly manner (light ribbing, not exactly in a hateful context). I should have clarified that initially, which is my bad.
As for being called out, i don't mind. I've nothing to hide, so if I'm asked to clarify on something, or provide some validity, I'll do so willingly (within my lane mind you)
As for being called out, i don't mind. I've nothing to hide, so if I'm asked to clarify on something, or provide some validity, I'll do so willingly (within my lane mind you)
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Spock, to offer a different viewpoint, I have a friend who is very relaxed, very mellow, not aggressive really at all (I couldn't even get him to do boxing with me)
Now that being said .. he did great in basic, really great in SQ (so much his crse officer requested him to join his unit and got him there) and is doing very well with the engineers. Even manages to keep up and hold his own with them and the Sigs during PT. He's doing just fine despite being one of those quiet types. That being said, he doesn't take crap from anyone, and everything everyone else told you applies... just thought I'd give an alternate POV.
Now that being said .. he did great in basic, really great in SQ (so much his crse officer requested him to join his unit and got him there) and is doing very well with the engineers. Even manages to keep up and hold his own with them and the Sigs during PT. He's doing just fine despite being one of those quiet types. That being said, he doesn't take crap from anyone, and everything everyone else told you applies... just thought I'd give an alternate POV.
the 48th regulator
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Sh0rtbUs said:
And rcac_011,
I rest my case.
dileas
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rcac_011 said:
um...thats sort of what I referred to.
And you mean to tell me you have never heard a racist comment?How and I quote "splitasses shouldn't be allowed in the Infantry"?Give me a break.I worked with units who were quite vocal on that.And If you actually say this stuff doesn't happen....time to get out from behind your desk and hit the floor with the troops.(and i apologise for that comment as it is NOT MY VIEW IN ANYWAY).And lets not forget the e mails....you know the ones.
So the pc movement of the 90's solved everything eh? bull.
Thats like saying drinking and driving laws stopped drunks behind a wheel.
Pot's illegal,so does that mean no one smokes it?
Personally I don't understand how you can say
the 48th regulator said:
In no way am I trying to sound authoritative.Your the SGT with 8 years in.I'm a mere Cpl. But I will say believe what you will,you'll find people don't change as they place the uniform on.Examples? rather not get people in trouble over nothing.
Believe what you want,you'll find out when you join.
Thx guys, I guess my description of "gentle" wasn't the best one. I avoid fights to avoid getting into trouble (ie: getting suspended and stuff), I usually try to keep away from the mess of it all, and in school, I try to deal with others in non-violent ways, even if they're acting aggressive towards me, once again, because I myself don't want to get punished by the authority because I retaliated (remember in school, how they said you should always try to solve things in a civilized matter? I took that to heart). That being said, if necessary, I can and will defend myself and my dignity. But thank you guys for the heads up.
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Spock, I joined as artillery, and I had suffered a great many beastings from the grade six bullies up until the day I joined. Then, like the fellow who "squared his shoulders", I made it thru Basic, Battle School, and other courses unscathed. The courses were physically demanding and mentally abusive, but we were all picked on back then, so none of the insults were personal, per se. I did the combat arms thing for 8 yrs, then military college for 4 before heading off into a career as an officer. I have not been in many fights over the years, but that hasn't slowed me down or given me any cause for worry either: of all the courses Ive done, Ive come in first in most of them, and was top candidate in all the ones that count - the Leadership Training Courses. (this is not a boast or an invite for flaming) Could I stand and deliver if placed in a situation? Absolutely, butthere is no reason to go looking for it either. I wouldn't worry about Basic. Your "defend yourself and your dignity" stance will be more than enough. Just don't let them ever get the best of you.
Yours, aye
Yours, aye
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I have to agree with rcac_011: racism, aggression (overt or otherwise), sexism, and many other forms of -ism are still alive and well within the CF. They are most certainly hidden away, hiding in offices and canteens, rest areas, etc. SHARP and all the huggy-kissy policies did little to alter people's long held beliefs and opinions: it just made people watch their backblast, and whisper these thoughts instead of yell them out loud for all to hear.
I think that too many of these policies have caused the "wussification" of the CF, in the same way it did the same to Canadian society. If you can't handle a little of aggression, anger or even hostility directed at you, it will truly be a sad day if the first time you do experience it is in a foreign country (or even Canada) when the person across from you hasn't been SHARP trained, and doesn't have a clue what a Harassment Advisor is, and is about to jam his rusty AK down your throat.
For the ney-sayers and non-believers, I have been hit (by an SSM with his pace stick for the grievous crime of not being in step when marching a person in on charge parade), called any variation of "homo" (it doesn't help that my last name rhymes with "homo-la") and "retard" and "sissy" that you can imagine, and I joined in 1988 as well. The Base Chief in Gagetown a bunch of years was African-Canadian (for the PC crowd), and he allegedly had a placard on his desk that read "SNIC" (Senior N*****r in Charge). Is/was it right? No. Did it cause the world to end? No. We should be more concerned with having an effective fighting force than having a sensitive, tofu eating social circle that breaks down, pisses itself and curls into the fetal position when somebody says/does something that offends them.
Al
I think that too many of these policies have caused the "wussification" of the CF, in the same way it did the same to Canadian society. If you can't handle a little of aggression, anger or even hostility directed at you, it will truly be a sad day if the first time you do experience it is in a foreign country (or even Canada) when the person across from you hasn't been SHARP trained, and doesn't have a clue what a Harassment Advisor is, and is about to jam his rusty AK down your throat.
For the ney-sayers and non-believers, I have been hit (by an SSM with his pace stick for the grievous crime of not being in step when marching a person in on charge parade), called any variation of "homo" (it doesn't help that my last name rhymes with "homo-la") and "retard" and "sissy" that you can imagine, and I joined in 1988 as well. The Base Chief in Gagetown a bunch of years was African-Canadian (for the PC crowd), and he allegedly had a placard on his desk that read "SNIC" (Senior N*****r in Charge). Is/was it right? No. Did it cause the world to end? No. We should be more concerned with having an effective fighting force than having a sensitive, tofu eating social circle that breaks down, pisses itself and curls into the fetal position when somebody says/does something that offends them.
Al
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Allan Luomala said:
....and...he....sob...sob ...called me a infidel. ;D
the 48th regulator
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I think I proved my point when shortbus clarified himself.
To say it did not happen, I would say I was living in a fantasy world. For him to state that A Sgt. once told me, "When i first joined, on my first day, i was told 'immigrants to the back' during a meal line. Right then i learned, broaden my shoulders and thicken my skin, otherwise i wasn't going to get far". without explaining it was a comical, although racist, jest, it pushes the idea that it was done, accepted and the Said Sgt went to the end of the line. Bull pooh.
Yes, I saw, heard and experienced all kinds of racist crap. But I did not believe that statement happened with a little more of an explanation, than the cut and dry method it was first stated.
Either way, I proved my point, and he clarified his statement.
Really? So you are saying that people still drink the way they used too? Ever been to the mess lately? Still the same bustling place as it was when your senior NCOs were young pups? Go ahead and ask them, they will tell you that it was where the action was, at all times. Now, only if you have some formal business to do.
dileas
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You seem to take the last quote and twist it to agree with you.The post said nothing about drunkenness charges.The mess died due to pers not wanting to hang around work 24/7 talking "shop talk ".And with people joining at a much older age compared to the 1980's they usually have a family to go home to at the end of the day.And actually we got 2 guys DUI driving from the mess to the shacks one year.
Every Christmas break SOMEONE gets a DUI charge.Or drug possession.
The only point we are trying to get across here it happens and to deny it only happend in 1948 is crap.I understand you clarifying that certain one situation,but Spock wanted to know if this harassment stuff happens..yes.
Basically what ever happens on civilian street happens here.And if I can prevent this young man from joining by telling him the truth good for me.Personally I couldn't find myself on-line asking people if they thought I would be harassed in the army for being too gentle.
and I wade out of the shallow pool......
Every Christmas break SOMEONE gets a DUI charge.Or drug possession.
The only point we are trying to get across here it happens and to deny it only happend in 1948 is crap.I understand you clarifying that certain one situation,but Spock wanted to know if this harassment stuff happens..yes.
Basically what ever happens on civilian street happens here.And if I can prevent this young man from joining by telling him the truth good for me.Personally I couldn't find myself on-line asking people if they thought I would be harassed in the army for being too gentle.
and I wade out of the shallow pool......
the 48th regulator
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Spock I apologise for the Hijack, but I feel this may be a good lesson learned, myself included.
Ok rcac_011 ,
The debate stems From one post where I asked and got clarification.
I will ask you the following question. Maybe things have changed in the last couple of years. But in this day and age of Sharp training, concern of ones career (reg or reserve), and a student body more apt to complain to higher that the following scenario can happen.
An instructor stands in front of a group of recruits right before the meal line. He loudly states "All immigrants to the back of the meal line" and they do as told.
I think Alan nailed when he said;
I do not deny it still happens, I deny that it is as open as that. This is what we should be warning Spock. Yes A lot of things continue to happen, the challenge is it is not in the open, and that makes it much worse.
So if the above scenario would still be able to happen, is an answer I would like to know.
dileas
tess
Ok rcac_011 ,
The debate stems From one post where I asked and got clarification.
I will ask you the following question. Maybe things have changed in the last couple of years. But in this day and age of Sharp training, concern of ones career (reg or reserve), and a student body more apt to complain to higher that the following scenario can happen.
An instructor stands in front of a group of recruits right before the meal line. He loudly states "All immigrants to the back of the meal line" and they do as told.
I think Alan nailed when he said;
Allan Luomala said:
I do not deny it still happens, I deny that it is as open as that. This is what we should be warning Spock. Yes A lot of things continue to happen, the challenge is it is not in the open, and that makes it much worse.
So if the above scenario would still be able to happen, is an answer I would like to know.
dileas
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Agreed!
I will tell Spock a little story.I was 146 pounds .I went to meaford Ontario for battle school and the very first day of course a guy decided to mouth off stupid newfie or something like that.Fist fight got broken up and I found myself in front of a instructor,scared shitless.He told me to sit down and relax,and then proceeded to tell me "good job punching that fatass next time use a garbage can etc...nothing goes past this level".I was floored!Expecting to get in total shit as "fighting was unacceptable" and was almost rewarded for hitting this fat bitch.
Something you gotta remember Spock also is that even though your instructors are teaching you at that point in time,you must remember you most likely will be working with them sometime along your career.And if your complain about harassment etc people at the unit will hear all about it prior to your arrival (remember the admin NCO hears a lot and may be your peer in your section/troop later).
The 48th,yes I agree that it may not be so vocal as shortbus referred to.And I think we finally agree that yes it happens but on the lower whispered levels.Having said that there are people who come into troops that are razed and razed everyday,beaten on occasion etc.If you don't fit in you don't fit in.
We had one guy who use to keep all things said bad about him in a little book and at the end of the month brought it to higher.Nothing happened to anyone because it was looked at as childish behaviour on the complainers part (which it was) i.e "he told me to shut up during a o group".He is still know for that.
I will tell Spock a little story.I was 146 pounds .I went to meaford Ontario for battle school and the very first day of course a guy decided to mouth off stupid newfie or something like that.Fist fight got broken up and I found myself in front of a instructor,scared shitless.He told me to sit down and relax,and then proceeded to tell me "good job punching that fatass next time use a garbage can etc...nothing goes past this level".I was floored!Expecting to get in total shit as "fighting was unacceptable" and was almost rewarded for hitting this fat bitch.
Something you gotta remember Spock also is that even though your instructors are teaching you at that point in time,you must remember you most likely will be working with them sometime along your career.And if your complain about harassment etc people at the unit will hear all about it prior to your arrival (remember the admin NCO hears a lot and may be your peer in your section/troop later).
The 48th,yes I agree that it may not be so vocal as shortbus referred to.And I think we finally agree that yes it happens but on the lower whispered levels.Having said that there are people who come into troops that are razed and razed everyday,beaten on occasion etc.If you don't fit in you don't fit in.
We had one guy who use to keep all things said bad about him in a little book and at the end of the month brought it to higher.Nothing happened to anyone because it was looked at as childish behaviour on the complainers part (which it was) i.e "he told me to shut up during a o group".He is still know for that.
We had one guy who use to keep all things said bad about him in a little book and at the end of the month brought it to higher
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wow. thats screwed up.
I am doing my BMQ right now and found that there are always certain people that get picked on by peers and instructors. Was it like this for all BMQs?
I consider myself gentle person too, but didnt really have any doubts like spock there. I just didnt know what to expect from the CF. So far its not so bad. Of course theres screaming and stuff, but I try my best to keep up.
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wow. thats screwed up.
I am doing my BMQ right now and found that there are always certain people that get picked on by peers and instructors. Was it like this for all BMQs?
I consider myself gentle person too, but didnt really have any doubts like spock there. I just didnt know what to expect from the CF. So far its not so bad. Of course theres screaming and stuff, but I try my best to keep up.
A
aesop081
Guest
3aXap said:
WHAT
Thats outrageous........whats this world coming to, someone ought to put a stop to that nonsense
the 48th regulator
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aesop081 said:WHAT
Thats outrageous........whats this world coming to, someone ought to put a stop to that nonsense
whoa whoa big A, at least he was not told to go to the end of the line...
dileas
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Steve said:
Most people can arrange folding chairs around a card table. ;D
