The Defence Budget [superthread]

[Rifleman62]

Jim Seggie:

Couple with the fact disbanding the battalion, the only unit in the CF that has been awarded the US Presidential Unit Citation for Kapyong would not sit well with the soldiers, the Americans and the Koreans.

Sorry RSM, that means nothing to the Americans or the Koreans, nor to any government.

If we were to cut one of the two PRes Inf units in Wpg, who would it be?

A unit that costs the government extra for kilts, bag pipes, or a unit that has the "Royal" designator, the name of the city in its title, and a longer more distinguished history?

We have gone through this many times as recently as less than ten years ago when the Camerons almost got re-rolled to Engineers.

Winnipeg does not need, has not needed since the 70's two PRes Infantry units. Unsustainable. When the time comes to cut, I fear the Highland mafia will have the most pull. History, names, etc will not even enter into the equation.

 

[rifleman]

Perhaps they could cut one battalion down to something like 10% Regular Force and 90% Reservist?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Jim Seggie:
Sorry RSM, that means nothing to the Americans or the Koreans, nor to any government.

If we were to cut one of the two PRes Inf units in Wpg, who would it be?

A unit that costs the government extra for kilts, bag pipes, or a unit that has the "Royal" designator, the name of the city in its title, and a longer more distinguished history?

Sounds like buttons and bows to me... I believe many on here are against that stuff...

 

[Monsoon]

Perhaps they could cut one battalion down to something like 10% Regular Force and 90% Reservist?

Given that the structure of most reserve units is 8-10 full timers and 80-100 class "A" types, that would be pretty much every militia unit in the army.

 

[McG]

It would cost far too much to move all the pers and equipment from Shilo to Edm as well as cleaning up the Base to be turned over to the public.

Consolidating 1 CMBG is one of those things that would spend money to save money.  Overtime there would be savings from reductions of cost moves, TD and equipment transportation.  It would also make life easier as the Bde would not find itself trying to FG a TF in two separated locations, or conducting identical min-load courses in two locations to avoid putting half a max-load course on TD.

Moving 1RCHA and 2PPCLI from Shilo would not necessitate the base be closed (though some facilities on the base would be).  And (depending on who you talk to) the preferred consolidation location for 1 CMBG would be debatable.

 

[Strike]

Consolidating 1 CMBG is one of those things that would spend money to save money.  Overtime there would be savings from reductions of cost moves, TD and equipment transportation.  It would also make life easier as the Bde would not find itself trying to FG a TF in two separated locations, or conducting identical min-load courses in two locations to avoid putting half a max-load course on TD.

Moving 1RCHA and 2PPCLI from Shilo would not necessitate the base be closed (though some facilities on the base would be).  And (depending on who you talk to) the preferred consolidation location for 1 CMBG would be debatable.

What you would also have to consider is where the guns would be able to play.  Do we even have enough land around Edmonton?  Is Wainwright comparable?  The cost of land in Alberta is pretty darned high, then add the costs for environmental assessments and the time it would take to get all of that set up.  By the time any of that were to ever get sorted, the winds of change would be blowing again and the solution of moving the guns would no longer be valid.

 

[OldSolduer]

There is also the political element to consider. The Conservatives may lose ground in Manitoba if one of the two major units is moved.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

I have heard that this story is completely unfounded.  It might be worth it to hold off on the frenzy of discussion until Monday and see what the chain of command has to say.

 

[GAP]

This whole issue is based on an article about a Liberal trying to create an issue that they can cry foul on regarding a dumb question.

That's not good enough for Lamoureux, who says "the future of 2 PPCLI and CFB Shilo are being put into question because of this government's lack of commitment to Manitoba. People all over the province, and in particular Shilo, are concerned. The minister's non-answer causes me to believe that they have a hidden agenda and they do not want their decision to interfere with the upcoming byelection."

Up to now, the Brandon-Souris byelection has lacked a dominant issue for candidates and voters to focus on. The possibility of 2 PPCLI and CFB Shilo being targeted by federal spending cuts -- and the possibility the Harper government is withholding the news until after the byelection -- could reframe the dynamics of the campaign days before the vote.

That the issue right there and it's media pap. It is cold in Manitoba this weekend, so other than grannies skidding into the ditches while driving, what else is going on.......oh, that byelection thingy in Brandon....hmmm.......

The possibility of 2 PPCLI and CFB Shilo being targeted by federal spending cuts is a guarantee......as proportionally as every other area. Some a wee bit more than others.

 

[Strike]

Kinda like Goose Bay - every few months someone tries to stir the pot in order to get people to vote for them/support them without thinking about how much their unfounded rumours are affecting people.

 

[Haletown]

We are getting wrapped around the axle over a bit of speculation by an individual who wrote an oped piece that was published in The Winnipeg Free Press. The author made a bunch of assumptions, some of which may be valid and some of which appear to be pretty wild. Any meaningful reduction in the CAF would have to entail cutting much more than the 1300 positions or so embodied in two battalions. Frankly I am prepared to see what falls out of the trees in the days ahead, but to reach the ceiling Rick Hillier was talking about would require massive amputations, not just trimming. I don't think that is politically possible or even very smart, given the state of the world.

An OpEd pice written by someone who has a long deep history with the Liberal Party of Canada. Not saying he is pushing an agenda buy there is an election happening in the  area and politics is politics.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I have heard that this story is completely unfounded.  It might be worth it to hold off on the frenzy of discussion until Monday and see what the chain of command has to say.

Thank you. I was waiting for someone in the bigger picture to respond.

 

[54/102 CEF]

Straws in the wind but big names verbalising...........

Get a trade / skill to take with you out the door is always good advice

Troop reductions could be on the table, Canada’s defence chief says Lee Berthiaume
Published: November 19, 2013, 2:29 pm
http://o.canada.com/news/national/troop-reductions-could-be-on-the-table-canadas-defence-chief-says/

"One of Lawson’s predecessors, retired general Rick Hillier, warned in a recent interview that reducing the size of the military was the only way to ensure the force remains strong and stable.

“If we do this right, we can still have an agile force, we can still have a superbly trained force and we can still have a force capable in this era of threats,” Hillier told CTV in September. “But it’s going to be smaller, you just can’t get around it.”

Putting Military Pay on the Table
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
Published: November 30, 2013
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/opinion/sunday/putting-military-pay-on-the-table.html?hp&rref=opinion

"After a decade of war, the very idea of cutting benefits to soldiers, sailors and Marines who put their lives on the line seems ungrateful. But America’s involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan is over or winding down, and the Pentagon is obliged to find nearly $1 trillion in savings over 10 years. Tough choices will be required in all parts of the budget. Compensation includes pay, retirement benefits, health care and housing allowances. It consumes about half the military budget, and it is increasing.

In a speech last month, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel warned that without serious savings in this area, “we risk becoming an unbalanced force, one that is well compensated but poorly trained and equipped, with limited readiness and capability.” Meanwhile, Gen. Ray Odierno, the Army chief of staff, told a hearing: “The cost of a soldier has doubled since 2001; it’s going to almost double again by 2025. We can’t go on like this, so we have to come up with [new] compensation packages.”

 

[Transporter]

The military compensation package in the US is sweet, but expensive. Pension is 2.5% per year, average best three, collect after 20. And that's without having to pay a dime into it. Also, upon retirement, free (or nearly free) health/dental care for members and their dependants at US military medical facilities. It's even sweeter if you consider the fact that nine (9) states have no state income tax, thirteen (13) other states exempt 100% of military pensions from income tax, and virtually all of the remaining states have varying tax exemptions or deductions for military pension income (ex, 50% of pension income exempt from taxation, etc).

 

[Occam]

You know it's bad when...

Received as a NCR-wide e-mail.



PLANTS IN THE WORKPLACE

The Treasury Board Secretariat’s ‘Guide to the Management of Real Property’ categorizes plants as a discretionary expense. Accordingly, plants are considered to be optional within the workplace. The Government of Canada Workplace 2.0 Fit-up Standards have clarified that plants and associated maintenance costs, previously covered by PWGSC, are now in fact a tenant (DND) responsibility.  The cost to DND to maintain the plants currently placed in the workplace within the NCR would be in the neighbourhood of $300,000 per year. Therefore, given that plants in the workplace are not core to DND's mandate, and that we are facing some significant current budgetary challenges, DND will not assume these costs.  As such, PWGSC will arrange for the removal, disposal and/or relocation of the existing plant inventory over the coming weeks and months as our maintenance contracts expire.

This message is being sent on behalf of Brigadier-General M.P. Jorgensen, Chief of Staff to the Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, to all recipients in the National Capital Region (NCR) and as such does not need to be forwarded to anyone within the NCR.  Please do not reply as this mailbox is not monitored.

 

[Old Sweat]

Geez, Jorgey survived the Herc crash (in Alaska?) when he was in the AB Regt to be reduced to this.

:sarcasm:

 

[PPCLI Guy]

300K will buy a week in the field for 1 CMBG.  I say kudos for rooting out waste wherever it is.

 

[Old Sweat]

Imagine how long 1 CMBG could be in the field if the system had the discipline to prune the staff with the equal vigour shown in clear cutting NDHQ.

 

[Infanteer]

That's the kind of line item review that needs to be done; managing the budget won't be about big things like cutting a battalion, it'll be about eliminating the death by 1000 cuts that occurs daily throughout the defence budget.  Kudos to the General.

 

[Good2Golf]

I say kudos for rooting out waste wherever it is.

I see what you did there. :nod: