The Next Canadian Government

[IKnowNothing]

When they get there only 170 Conservative MPs meet with Mr Poilievre; a full 50 stay outside the room and decide to meet as a new party. It's a CPC majority but a damned slim one and it is a stinging rebuke to Pierre Poilievre which indicates what Conservatives heard on the doorsteps during the campaign.

Just rumours from a few disgruntled Tories, but you never know.

I would bet against this happening on day 1- too big of swing too fast. But I wouldn't bet against PP's majority being troubled by a PC bloc forming that puts his whip to work.

 

[RangerRay]

O’Toole & Kenny would disagree.

In Canada, our “checks and balances” require MPs to prioritize constituency over party.

I agree that’s how it’s supposed to work. But I’ve only seen it happen a few times. Those examples are the exception that proves the rule. In your examples, both of those leaders believed in the supremacy of parliament and they gave their caucuses (cauci?) more leeway than most.

Parties have become personality cults of the leader. I would love to see MPs use the power they are supposed to wield, but they are more likely to stick their heads up one at a time to get mown down by the leader’s office.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I call bullshit

More bullshit. Emphasis on the word RUMOURS

For a well educated and informed (and experienced person) I expect way better. If this was a thing, The CBC, CTV, Toronto Star and Global would be ALL over it. Unless you got something concrete or more to it?


Fantasies.

Anybody with anything substantial? No?

I got one. I heard Trudeau is secretly in league in with Emperor Palpatine to overthrow the country. Ridiculous isn't it? Just like the Pierre P rumours, innuendos, falsehoods and pure bullshit that have seeping around about Pierre and the CPC.

The closer we get to election time (whether its now or later), the more smear campaigns and psy ops launch.

One reason I never indulge in the rumour of Justin Trudeau and the "hidden allegations" at West Grey Academy (again its rumours, innuendos, falsehoods and pure bullshit) is because unless I see proof or a direct statement, it is just BS. The truth is, no one outside a few truly knows why he left the private school. Justin has said and done plenty of dumb things, we don't need to make shit up on him. Or anybody.

Yup, for this round, I am very pro CPC and stand by it.

Homeless Tories are a real thing. I have no idea how many they are or how well organized they might be. I backed a way from most political discourse to deal with may own health issues but a handful of people try to keep me engaged. I said rumours

 

[Good2Golf]

When they get there only 170 Conservative MPs meet with Mr Poilievre; a full 50 stay outside the room and decide to meet as a new party. It's a CPC majority but a damned slim one and it is a stinging rebuke to Pierre Poilievre which indicates what Conservatives heard on the doorsteps during the campaign.

Possibly even less than 170…165? That would be even more of a statement about the underlaying angst of the PC-minded vs the Reform/Alliance-minded cons.

That would be some real Hail Hydra move from insiders.

Sort of like when Harper reneged on his “Two-term then you” deal with MacKay?

What would be the difference between the 'True Blue Tories' and members of the current CPC party?

(Actual question, not being facetious)

The progressive element that wouldn’t ever think about raising a Private Members bill to legislate abortion, amongst other things…

 

[ArmyRick]

the voting population isn’t terribly enamoured with PP

Says who?

es you are very pro CPC.

For now. If they fail integrity, accountability and transparency as a government, I will drop them faster than a teenage girlfriend.

I am sure there are some number of disgruntled members as he indicated

Lemme guess? Mad Max Bernier?

Some have already splintered off and it could be that some are working on the inside keeping those on the outside who have left informed and appraised of the situation

Really? Somehow CTV and CBC missed this? You can't just go around and say things people WANT to hear and then it becomes truth. Lets see something concrete. Take note of how I actually defended Trudeau on an accusation. Lets deal in facts not fiction.

what the tea leaves are showing

In other words pulling stuff out of your arse.

SPECIFICS. Dates. Time. Who said what. Who did what. Lets see it. Otherwise it is more of your anti-CPC fantasies.

 

[IKnowNothing]

For now. If they fail integrity, accountability and transparency as a government, I will drop them faster than a teenage girlfriend.

Have you considered that some might prefer to keep an open mind and be critical of all parties/leaders at all times, based on their actions and messages at any given time, rather than picking a horse to shamelessly cheerlead and blindly defend until it becomes time to "drop them"?

Lemme guess? Mad Max Bernier?

Might start with the MP's that backed other Leadership Candidates + the ones that did not endorse anyone. Cross reference that with those that backed O'Toole against PP's takeover in the Leadership Review.

 

[ArmyRick]

Have you considered that some might prefer to keep an open mind and be critical of all parties/leaders at all times, based on their actions and messages at any given time, rather than picking a horse to shamelessly cheerlead and blindly defend until it becomes time to "drop them"?


Might start with the MP's that backed other Leadership Candidates + the ones that did not endorse anyone. Cross reference that with those that backed O'Toole against PP's takeover in the Leadership Review.

What your not getting (or not reading what I typed) is I am fed up of BS made up. Most of the criticism against the CPC is just that, BS.

O'Toole against PP's takeover in the Leadership Review

Come again?

Facts not fiction.

 

[IKnowNothing]

What your not getting (or not reading what I typed) is I am fed up of BS made up. Most of the criticism against the CPC is just that, BS.

What's being discussed is not "criticism against the CPC" it's about a potential rift between a subset of MP's and the direction/leadership of the party.
A party that:
-still had 40% support in caucus for the guy ousted
-is barely 20 years old, built on an Alliance (heh) between two fairly different groups
-saw 26 MP's stay out of the fray, and 18* endorse more PC flavour candidates in 2022.
*There was 3 more, but they saw which way the wind was blowing when the party apparatus knifed Brown

 

[brihard]

Homeless Tories are a real thing. I have no idea how many they are or how well organized they might be. I backed a way from most political discourse to deal with may own health issues but a handful of people try to keep me engaged. I said rumours

“Homeless Tories” is a useful term, and one I find personally relatable.

 

[ArmyRick]

still had 40% support in caucus for the guy ousted

Erin did choose to step down. He might have been able to fight to stay on but he had an election loss on his record. Not sure that 40% would have stayed that much. Don't matter, he stepped down and we have moved on.

hey saw which way the wind was blowing when the party apparatus knifed Brown

And this is fact? You know this for sure? Or are you guessing.

Last I checked, there is a pretty solid case of team cohesion to made for the CPC. When, not if Trudeau loses, we shall see what happens.

 

[ArmyRick]

“Homeless Tories”

Who are these tories you speak of?

 

[brihard]

Who are these tories you speak of?

I simply said it’s a term I find relatable. Maybe I’m the only person in Canada who would read that descriptor, nod, and raise their hand.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Erin did choose to step down. He might have been able to fight to stay on but he had an election loss on his record. Not sure that 40% would have stayed that much. Don't matter, he stepped down and we have moved on.

What? O'Toole was deposed by a caucus leadership review that he lost 73-45.

And this is fact? You know this for sure? Or are you guessing.

They chose Brown upfront then switched horses mid-race.

 

[Remius]

Says who?

Poilievre Monitor -

Tracking Opposition Leader Poilievre Religion and Vote: Liberals trail among Jews, Muslims as party walks tight rope in response to Gaza war May 15, 2024 Canada’s national party leaders have never been less popular, and 50 years of data demonstrates that May 8, 2024 Load More

angusreid.org

That isn’t exactly awesome numbers. But whatever you want to convince yourself of go for it. But don’t come here and declare your disdain for cult following when it appears you are doing exactly that.

For now. If they fail integrity, accountability and transparency as a government, I will drop them faster than a teenage girlfriend.


Lemme guess? Mad Max Bernier?

No. And you making that guess tells me you might not be as informed as you think you are. While maybe there are some far right libertarians that are unhappy with PP, I think he’s done a good job convincing them he’s their guy for now. Enough to be a buffer against MB at any rate.

No, most of us here are talking about centrists that may not be too thrilled about the direction of the party. Red Tories, Fiscal conservatives, essentially what might be remaining of the PC.

Really? Somehow CTV and CBC missed this? You can't just go around and say things people WANT to hear and then it becomes truth. Lets see something concrete. Take note of how I actually defended Trudeau on an accusation. Lets deal in facts not fiction.

CTV Canadian Future Party hoping to garner support from those fed up with Liberals, Conservatives

CBC. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/new-federal-centrist-party-canada-1.6972891


you seem to get upset when facts are brought up but ok. Yes there have been party members that have splintered off. The Canada Future Party is made up of a few notable conservatives. Dominic Cardy, Marjorie Lebreton (who actually resigned from PPs riding association after he took power), Christie Clark has had her hand in there as well. These are conservatives who are not working for the current blue machine and it isn’t inconceivable that some still have links to the party and people in the party who may be quietly supporting that sort of thing.

In other words pulling stuff out of your arse.

No. Your rage is blinding you to anything that might disagree with your opinion.

SPECIFICS. Dates. Time. Who said what. Who did what. Lets see it. Otherwise it is more of your anti-CPC fantasies.

Calm yourself. If you want reasonable discourse maybe be reasonable yourself to start.

 

[Remius]

I simply said it’s a term I find relatable. Maybe I’m the only person in Canada who would read that descriptor, nod, and raise their hand.

Maybe there are two of us? That would be a 100% increase since your post.

 

[Remius]

Possibly even less than 170…165? That would be even more of a statement about the underlaying angst of the PC-minded vs the Reform/Alliance-minded cons.

It’s a tenuous relationship. PP will certainly have his hands full keeping all of them united.

Sort of like when Harper reneged on his “Two-term then you” deal with MacKay?

Some haven’t forgotten that.

The progressive element that wouldn’t ever think about raising a Private Members bill to legislate abortion, amongst other things…

My guess is that anything resembling that would be an internal group (or groups) but making it clear they could walk at anytime.

 

[IKnowNothing]

It’s a tenuous relationship. PP will certainly have his hands full keeping all of them united.

I'm not sure. For all of the negative ink spilled on here about JT building his cult of personality and neutering the LPC caucus, PP is doing a damn fine job mimicking it. Is social media game is unparalleled, and I don't think you can underestimate the brand he's built and the level on influence he has on "converted" low info voters.

In my neck of the woods we have CPC MP's in Lobb, Nater, and Ruff. Looking at past endorsements/comments etc. it's not hard to see any/all of them being in the group EC has heard rumours about. I don't follow Lobb much, but Nater and Ruff are excellent MP's in my opinion. All three are strong, multi-term, grassroots candidates. But for all that I wouldn't bet on them winning seats in 2029 against the CPC machine running as part of Canada's Future or any hypothetical PC substitute.

 

[Remius]

I'm not sure. For all of the negative ink spilled on here about JT building his cult of personality and neutering the LPC caucus, PP is doing a damn fine job mimicking it. Is social media game is unparalleled, and I don't think you can underestimate the brand he's built and the level on influence he has on "converted" low info voters.

Agreed. But I would also argue that once in power, making some decisions to appease the factions under his tent will still be a balancing act.

In my neck of the woods we have CPC MP's in Lobb, Nater, and Ruff. Looking at past endorsements/comments etc. it's not hard to see any/all of them being in the group EC has heard rumours about. I don't follow Lobb much, but Nater and Ruff are excellent MP's in my opinion. All three are strong, multi-term, grassroots candidates. But for all that I wouldn't bet on them winning seats against the CPC machine running as part of Canada's Future or any hypothetical PC substitute.

I don’t see anyone switching to any upstart party but I could see various info sharing and silent support flowing in various directions.

I doubt the CFP wins any seats. My hope is that they could get a decent vote share to be noticed. Either for a next run or for the two major parties to try and make policy that would attract that vote share.

 

[GR66]

I simply said it’s a term I find relatable. Maybe I’m the only person in Canada who would read that descriptor, nod, and raise their hand.

 

[ArmyRick]

They chose Brown upfront then switched horses mid-race

There was some dirty political assassination going on for sure. When we deal with what we know for sure, the allegations against Patrick Brown turned out to be false (surprise) and the media ran with a weak story. Who was (for sure) behind it? I don't know and I doubt you know either. We have our suspicions at best.

O'Toole was deposed by a caucus leadership review that he lost 73-45.

Yup. He lost an election and didn't have the backing of the caucus. Whats your point? O'Toole is history. How does this apply to here and now?

he has on "converted" low info voters.

LOW INFO voters? Thats insulting and what makes people who back Pierre and the CPC "low informed" voters? Because you say so?

Your rage is blinding you to anything that might disagree with your opinion.

I asked for facts. FACTS. Uou offer opinions and rumours, nothing else.

No, most of us here are talking about centrists that may not be too thrilled about the direction of the party.

Who? Which centrist? Seriously, lets see something more than myths being spread around. You literally sound like the CBC.

The Canada Future Party is made up of a few notable conservatives.

Is it? They haven't even bumped the polls any. They offer an "alternative"? I have heard of them BTW. So does the rhino part, god forbid the PPC, the Libertarian party but none of these are bumping the needle on the polls.

you seem to get upset when facts are brought up but ok

What facts have you brought up to date that go against what I said? None. Zilch.