Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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Goober said:
Maybe the idiots on the tax revolt site just need to find a way to make ends meet?
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It is what society as become sad to say. We no longer take pride(some of us) in the fact that these people risked their lives to save others.
I agree that stealing money raised from the sale of poppies is disgusting, however I would argue the point that the actions of one person out of 35 milllion Canadians is a classic example of anything, much less the state of Canadian patriotism. It is entirely possible that her actions aren't even representative of those of her immediate family, much less her nation.
Some months ago, 19 members of the Van Doos failed drug testing, would you say then that they are they a classic example of their regiment? It is after all a much higher sampling than 1 in 35 million. I know that I wouldn't and I don't know of anyone who would.
There have been numerous posts on this board about how the public perception of the military is tarnished by the actions of a few. Perhaps its time to give some thought as to how your perceptions of Canadians are likewise shaped by the actions of a few.
Some months ago, 19 members of the Van Doos failed drug testing, would you say then that they are they a classic example of their regiment? It is after all a much higher sampling than 1 in 35 million. I know that I wouldn't and I don't know of anyone who would.
There have been numerous posts on this board about how the public perception of the military is tarnished by the actions of a few. Perhaps its time to give some thought as to how your perceptions of Canadians are likewise shaped by the actions of a few.
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There certainly were 20 or so VanDoos who were nabbed for drugs last year. I don't recall implying that this woman's familiy was in anyway associated with her actions. The point was that I am not too sure you'll see too many soldiers, who yes occasionally make mistakes like the rest of the general population, stealing money from the families of Veterans in the form of Poppy sales, which in addition to generating money, stand for something much greater than just you or me.
I think it is a matter of patriotism. People know that soldiers have represented this country at war and at peace. Thats what the Poppy's represent. Whether they care or not is a different story. The sales of the Poppy pay for their production etc. and the remainder go to help the families of the Veterans, many of whom are barely making a living on their pensions. How could it not be a matter of patriotism? The Canadian soldier is as representative in the world as his flag is. The Canadian soldier wears the flag and defends it. As a patriotic Canadian, as a soldier and as a citizen of this country I'm appalled that someone would defend the actions of someone like this. Do you think it would be ok to steal the money from a UNICEF box on a 3rd Grade trick or treater? How about a firefighter holding the boot at Christmas for the Childrens Burn Fund? Stealing from them would be wrong, certainly, but even though they are worthy causes they do not represent the sacrifices made by individuals in the name of freedom or peace, nor do they serve to help the public remember those sacrifices.
I'd also argue that since the soldier is a reflection internationally of their country (not specifically Canada, but any country). Individuals, failing to support their soldiers are non-patriotic. A country that does not honour and take care of it's warriors regardless of the popularity of it's campaigns, is a shameful country indeed. You don't have to agree with what their missions are, you can hold the politicians, for whom soldiers are a tool, accountable for that, but the members of the military deserve your support. Case in point would be Americans. An unpopular war, yes. An overwhelming national support for their troops....Most definitely.
Simply put, someone who steals Poppy money is stealing money from and dishonoring the Veterans that fought to protect this country and our way of life. Thats patriotism? Hmmm....... :threat:
I think it is a matter of patriotism. People know that soldiers have represented this country at war and at peace. Thats what the Poppy's represent. Whether they care or not is a different story. The sales of the Poppy pay for their production etc. and the remainder go to help the families of the Veterans, many of whom are barely making a living on their pensions. How could it not be a matter of patriotism? The Canadian soldier is as representative in the world as his flag is. The Canadian soldier wears the flag and defends it. As a patriotic Canadian, as a soldier and as a citizen of this country I'm appalled that someone would defend the actions of someone like this. Do you think it would be ok to steal the money from a UNICEF box on a 3rd Grade trick or treater? How about a firefighter holding the boot at Christmas for the Childrens Burn Fund? Stealing from them would be wrong, certainly, but even though they are worthy causes they do not represent the sacrifices made by individuals in the name of freedom or peace, nor do they serve to help the public remember those sacrifices.
I'd also argue that since the soldier is a reflection internationally of their country (not specifically Canada, but any country). Individuals, failing to support their soldiers are non-patriotic. A country that does not honour and take care of it's warriors regardless of the popularity of it's campaigns, is a shameful country indeed. You don't have to agree with what their missions are, you can hold the politicians, for whom soldiers are a tool, accountable for that, but the members of the military deserve your support. Case in point would be Americans. An unpopular war, yes. An overwhelming national support for their troops....Most definitely.
Simply put, someone who steals Poppy money is stealing money from and dishonoring the Veterans that fought to protect this country and our way of life. Thats patriotism? Hmmm....... :threat:
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Where having the same problem in Calgary, last week 15 boxes were stolen from a large mall here. The box were I work was also lifted. :-[
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Absolutley disgusting....
I cant believe someone would stup so low.
I cant believe someone would stup so low.
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Bicque said:
This remark seems to be loaded.
What I gather is, Service Men & Women, Veterans and Ex-Servicemen are accusing the General Public as a whole of ( Disrespect, Indifference etc.) committed by only a few.
And their view of Canadian Patriotism as a whole is based on the acts of only a few (The Poppy Thieves).
I do not think its quite that simple (unless one is taking a defensive stance or is bias on the matter or other reasons).
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FastEddy said:
Great discussion (but, aren't they all ... at Army.ca ... chuckle!)
Anyway - there are lots of examples of thieves and con artists stealing charitable donations - it's a regrettable trend, not limited to poppy sales.
However, the outrage at such news (both public and here at Army.ca) is an indication that Canadians (civvie or military) still view this type of crime as the lowest of the low (i.e. stealing from the poor, or veterans, is beneath contempt).
Unfortunately, the mood of the "silent majority" is often difficult to guage ... due to their silence - it's only when they erupt into demonstration of their feelings that we notice (e.g. the impromptu vigils that took place when our fallen comrades were repatriated, and ordinary Canadians lined highway overpasses to pay their respects).
It would be a different story if somebody were to say "Oh, it's okay - that charitable organisation isn't important".
That is NOT/NOT/NOT the case with the poppy funds.
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I caught something briefly on the news last night about the Coquitlam BC thief. She phoned the Legion, all hysterical saying she did it but there were reasons. The Legion rep. refused to say the reasons, and I give her (the rep) credit for not feeding the media. The woman is a known panhandler so I'm certain the police know who she is, most likely its a matter of trying to track her down (if she's no fixed address). So, at least in this one circumstance hopefully the thief has a conscience and learns from her wrong doings.
I agree with the others, her sentence should be military time, or at the very least community work with the Legion so she is made aware of who she stole from.
Lets hope.
I agree with the others, her sentence should be military time, or at the very least community work with the Legion so she is made aware of who she stole from.
Lets hope.
From Hollywood Hitman
"The point was that I am not too sure you'll see too many soldiers, who yes occasionally make mistakes like the rest of the general population, stealing money from the families of Veterans in the form of Poppy sales, which in addition to generating money, stand for something much greater than just you or me. " (Bolding mine)
And my point is that you won't find too many civilians stealing from them either which is what you implied when you stated that her actions were a "classic example of patriotism in Canada today." On one hand, you have a single person stealing the money, on the other hand you have the large number of civilians who filled those boxes by buying poppies and yet you chose to present the thief as being representative of the Canadian public.
"I'm appalled that someone would defend the actions of someone like this. "
Who's defending her actions?
"Simply put, someone who steals Poppy money is stealing money from and dishonoring the Veterans that fought to protect this country and our way of life. Thats patriotism? Hmmm....... "
Who said it was patriotism?
From Fast Eddy
"This remark seems to be loaded."
I'm not sure exactly by what you mean by loaded but there have been a number of posts by CF members concerned that a particular story or event will make everyone in the Forces look guilty by association. Take a look in threads where the Somalia incident is mentioned or the thread where the Van Doos drug bust is discussed. (http://army.ca/forums/threads/16153.0.html) . I think that the transparency with which the matter was handled went a long way to maintaining the reputation of the regiment and Jungle's comments, as a senior NCO of the regiment, reinforced my opinion. The posts suggesting it should have been covered up were disturbing but definately in the minority.
I understand the concern about how perspection can be shaped by the bad actions of a few (especially in an organization where conformity is encouraged.)I'd like to see that go both ways though. Many times (note, not always but quite often) if something about a civilian ticks off a CF member they then extend that to all civilians. Apparently we are sheeple and lemmings because we all voted for Paul Martin, (despite the fact that he had a minority win in a four party system) We all define ourselves as Not American. We are all Anti American (especially those of us in Ontario) The majority of us call soldiers baby killers while we also can't accept that Canadian soldiers might actually kill people. We're all to busy enjoying our rights and freedoms to pay attention to our soldiers. We think everyone loves us. Canada is an incredibly diverse country for the size of our population, we're extremely regionalized, we use two official languages plus a plethora of others languages and yet when one of us is found to be lacking, we're like peas in a pod.
And Bossi, you're right on the mark!
"The point was that I am not too sure you'll see too many soldiers, who yes occasionally make mistakes like the rest of the general population, stealing money from the families of Veterans in the form of Poppy sales, which in addition to generating money, stand for something much greater than just you or me. " (Bolding mine)
And my point is that you won't find too many civilians stealing from them either which is what you implied when you stated that her actions were a "classic example of patriotism in Canada today." On one hand, you have a single person stealing the money, on the other hand you have the large number of civilians who filled those boxes by buying poppies and yet you chose to present the thief as being representative of the Canadian public.
"I'm appalled that someone would defend the actions of someone like this. "
Who's defending her actions?
"Simply put, someone who steals Poppy money is stealing money from and dishonoring the Veterans that fought to protect this country and our way of life. Thats patriotism? Hmmm....... "
Who said it was patriotism?
From Fast Eddy
"This remark seems to be loaded."
I'm not sure exactly by what you mean by loaded but there have been a number of posts by CF members concerned that a particular story or event will make everyone in the Forces look guilty by association. Take a look in threads where the Somalia incident is mentioned or the thread where the Van Doos drug bust is discussed. (http://army.ca/forums/threads/16153.0.html) . I think that the transparency with which the matter was handled went a long way to maintaining the reputation of the regiment and Jungle's comments, as a senior NCO of the regiment, reinforced my opinion. The posts suggesting it should have been covered up were disturbing but definately in the minority.
I understand the concern about how perspection can be shaped by the bad actions of a few (especially in an organization where conformity is encouraged.)I'd like to see that go both ways though. Many times (note, not always but quite often) if something about a civilian ticks off a CF member they then extend that to all civilians. Apparently we are sheeple and lemmings because we all voted for Paul Martin, (despite the fact that he had a minority win in a four party system) We all define ourselves as Not American. We are all Anti American (especially those of us in Ontario) The majority of us call soldiers baby killers while we also can't accept that Canadian soldiers might actually kill people. We're all to busy enjoying our rights and freedoms to pay attention to our soldiers. We think everyone loves us. Canada is an incredibly diverse country for the size of our population, we're extremely regionalized, we use two official languages plus a plethora of others languages and yet when one of us is found to be lacking, we're like peas in a pod.
And Bossi, you're right on the mark!
Pieman
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
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- Points
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I agree with you all that the action of stealing poppy money is pretty rotten.
But on the other side of the equation this kind of thing happens every single year. Someone goes into the stores and just walks off with the boxes, or worse, I recall a incident where an older veteran woman was collecting boxes and had them taken from her by a group of teens.
Oddly enough, every single year everyone acts surprised and cries: How could people be so rotten!!???
I think it is time people just accept the fact that there are a 'few rotten apples' (a.k.a. waste of skin) out there, and always will be. Fasten the boxes down and have simple security checks to make sure the right person is picking up the box. Stores should escort the veteran who is collecting the boxes out of the store to make sure they get to their car safe. We do it in just about every other situation involving money, why not this one?
To a thief or someone desperate, money is money.
But on the other side of the equation this kind of thing happens every single year. Someone goes into the stores and just walks off with the boxes, or worse, I recall a incident where an older veteran woman was collecting boxes and had them taken from her by a group of teens.
Oddly enough, every single year everyone acts surprised and cries: How could people be so rotten!!???
I think it is time people just accept the fact that there are a 'few rotten apples' (a.k.a. waste of skin) out there, and always will be. Fasten the boxes down and have simple security checks to make sure the right person is picking up the box. Stores should escort the veteran who is collecting the boxes out of the store to make sure they get to their car safe. We do it in just about every other situation involving money, why not this one?
To a thief or someone desperate, money is money.
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Every year since I was a wee lad in cadets, I have volunteered some time to canvass for the Legion's poppy campaign in the two weeks leading up to Remembrance Day. I have worn the uniform of an army cadet, CF greens, and now I wear my Legion garb. I know most us will be wearing a poppy in the days leading up to November 11, some wear them much more than just those few days. What are the rest of you doing to support the poppy campaign? Funds from the poppy Campaign are used for:
1. Assistance to ex-service personnel and their dependents.
2. Low rental housing and care facilities for elderly or disabled persons and their dependents.
3. Community medical research appliances and medical research
4. Day care centres, meals-on-wheels, transprotation and related services.
5. Cost of poppies, wreathes and supplies.
I hope that each of you will do what you can either by donating some time or money to the poppy campaign. It is a good cause and one day it could be you that needs the help.
1. Assistance to ex-service personnel and their dependents.
2. Low rental housing and care facilities for elderly or disabled persons and their dependents.
3. Community medical research appliances and medical research
4. Day care centres, meals-on-wheels, transprotation and related services.
5. Cost of poppies, wreathes and supplies.
I hope that each of you will do what you can either by donating some time or money to the poppy campaign. It is a good cause and one day it could be you that needs the help.
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My late grandfather was the director in charge of the poppy campaign when he was still alive, so I would help him alot over those few weeks with getting things organized. Since then, I haven't really done anything other than making my donation to the Poppy Campaign in his name since his passing. I also was in cadets and out there with my tray and can during the couple weekends before November 11th.
What sort of help do you feel the legion could use with this fundraising from those of us that are not members?
What sort of help do you feel the legion could use with this fundraising from those of us that are not members?
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Springroll, there are many things one might do. You may not know this but as a former cadet with a set amount of service you are eligble to join your local legion as a voting associate member. That would be a good start. Second, volunteer a few hours to help on the campaign. Many of the volunteers are older and some of the lifting, toting tasks are easier done by younger folks. Driving canvassers, looking after poppy trays in hotels restaurants or bars, or even making a donation in addition to the small poppy donation would all help.
Thanks for asking!
Thanks for asking!
