"The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"

[Scoobie Newbie]

From what you've posted, your BG's list contains eyewear that was not tested
"They" is DLR.  No model of Wiley X was handed out for the trial. 

Another disconnect.  If Ham Sand was there in Wainwrong and did receive Wiley's from someone outside his chain there is definitely something amiss.

 

[RCR Grunt]

They don't force you to do anything and perhaps its because we do look like a bunch of pirates that they ban aftermarket chest rigs.

You got something against pirates?

Next to ninja's, pirates are at the top of the awesome scale.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

lol

 

[Ham Sandwich]

From what you've posted, your BG's list contains eyewear that was not tested
"They" is DLR.  No model of Wiley X was handed out for the trial. 

No, "They" were the Battalion, not DLR. This was done at the unit level.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[medaid]

Uck hmmm! LWQ I, be a pirate.

 

[McG]

No, "They" were the Battalion, not DLR. This was done at the unit level.

Interesting.  Tell me if this sounds familiar ... 1400 sets of BEW are issued out to 350 deploying pers at Ex MG.  The selected pers each get four types of BEW (from two different manufactures) in order to evaluate.  At the end of the trial each participant gets to select one set of BEW to keep and the rest are returned for re-distribution across the TF.  The BEW with the highest approval becomes the new standard for all troops deploying in the future. 

[Edit to clarify number of manufactures]

 

[Run away gun]

Interesting.  Tell me if this sounds familiar ... 1400 sets of BEW are issued out to 350 deploying pers at Ex MG.  The selected pers each get four types of BEW (from three different manufactures) in order to evaluate.  At the end of the trial each participant gets to select one set of BEW to keep and the rest are returned for re-distribution across the TF.  The BEW with the highest approval becomes the new standard for all troops deploying in the future. 

Man that sounds like a good idea.. maybe that should become the standard, have a few different pieces of kit, all designed to do the job, and each individual soldier can decide which one works best for them. Rather than doing it this way for evaluations only. No LBV is going to work for everybody, same with BEW, and neither is any other piece of kit.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

He says "sounds familiar".. I wonder what McG is going to surprise us with?  I am trying to think back in my mind as to what piece of kit was selected in such a way?

Problem with that process is that the guys in Toronto don't get to run all those fancy tests of biometric human engineering things...like they did with the new rucksack.. (oops, did they forget to test for body armour in conjunction with it, oh well..at least they probably got good money to run the tests....)

I certainly hope the army has "woken up and smelled the coffee".. we'll find out in due time...

 

[R031button]

They don't force you to do anything and perhaps its because we do look like a bunch of pirates that they ban aftermarket chest rigs.

Really, the army doesn't force you to do anything? I always though being ordered to do something amounted to be told you had to do it, which to me is being forced to do it. Ergo,  since we're ordered to carry 5 more mags then our tac vests can carry in the mag pouches, so we are forced to jerry rig shit up, or buy aftermarket rigs.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

No you CAN get by with the TV.  Its been done.  Not well but its been done.  And you know I meant the Army doesn't force us to augment our kit.  We do it to be more effective and comfortable.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Interesting.  Tell me if this sounds familiar ... 1400 sets of BEW are issued out to 350 deploying pers at Ex MG.  The selected pers each get four types of BEW (from two different manufactures) in order to evaluate.  At the end of the trial each participant gets to select one set of BEW to keep and the rest are returned for re-distribution across the TF.  The BEW with the highest approval becomes the new standard for all troops deploying in the future. 

[Edit to clarify number of manufactures]

I can confirm everything but the last sentence, yes, that's what happened. But AFAIK, the only people who recieved these were within the BN, and i was told by someone with reasonable credibility that this was ramrodded by the BN.

 

[McG]

.... and i was told by someone with reasonable credibility that this was ramrodded by the BN.

He was in error.  DLR was the source of the trial.

 

[Gunner98]

Problem with that process is that the guys in Toronto don't get to run all those fancy tests of biometric human engineering things...like they did with the new rucksack.. (oops, did they forget to test for body armour in conjunction with it, oh well..at least they probably got good money to run the tests....)

I certainly hope the army has "woken up and smelled the coffee".. we'll find out in due time...

It is nice that you like to continue to bash the DRDC guys/gals but most if not all kit is field-trialled with soldiers just like you.  As has been stated it is the time that DLR and Supply and Services Canada take to contract that leads to the inadequacies of the kit.  The kit we are now wearing went through trials during the Balkans era.  Most of the DRDC staff are permanent and don't get paid gazillions of dollars to screw around soldiers.  They have to work within the Statement of Requirement and Statement of Work dreamed up by our HQs- they don't make it up themselves.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

You're right.. hindsight is 20/20..

It's just that things like that are a little frustrating after the matter.  I have a tendency to make digs when I can yet really would love to be proactive and help DLR as often as possible.  I used to be the first to volunteer with T&E in Gagetown and feel that during the times I have worked with them, I have given the input necessary to make changes and then seen the changes happen before my eyes. 

I apologize to the gang at DRDC Toronto for having to work for the people that make them do the things they do.  Pass the word people, when doing a trial of any item do it for real and make your input known!!  (though we say that on courses when discussing course reports but then do them all on a friday afternoon, after grad!!  We all know what results that gives.)

 

[daftandbarmy]

Our processes remind me alot of how GM does business. We could learn alot from Toyota in our development processes for kit:

The Open Secret of Success
by James Surowiecki May 12, 2008

In the current atmosphere of economic tumult, the announcement that Toyota sold a hundred and sixty thousand more cars than General Motors in the first three months of this year might seem like a minor news item. But it may very well signal the end of one of the most remarkable runs in business history. For seventy-seven years, in good times and bad, G.M. has sold more cars annually than any other company in the world. But Toyota has long been the auto industry’s most profitable and innovative firm. And this year it appears likely to become, finally, the industry’s sales leader, too.

Calling Toyota an innovative company may, at first glance, seem a bit odd. Its vehicles are more liked than loved, and it is often attacked for being better at imitation than at invention. Fortune, which typically praises the company effusively, has labelled it “stodgy and bureaucratic.” But if Toyota doesn’t look like an innovative company it’s only because our definition of innovation—cool new products and technological breakthroughs, by Steve Jobs-like visionaries—is far too narrow. Toyota’s innovations, by contrast, have focussed on process rather than on product, on the factory floor rather than on the showroom. That has made those innovations hard to see. But it hasn’t made them any less powerful.

At the core of the company’s success is the Toyota Production System, which took shape in the years after the Second World War, when Japan was literally rebuilding itself, and capital and equipment were hard to come by. A Toyota engineer named Taiichi Ohno turned necessity into virtue, coming up with a system to get as much as possible out of every part, every machine, and every worker. The principles were simple, even obvious—do away with waste, have parts arrive precisely when workers need them, fix problems as soon as they arise. And they weren’t even entirely new—Ohno himself cited Henry Ford and American supermarkets as inspirations. But what Toyota has done, better than any other manufacturing company, is turn principle into practice. In some cases, it has done so with inventions, like the andon cord, which any worker can pull to stop the assembly line if he notices a problem, or kanban, a card system that allows workers to signal when new parts are needed. In other cases, it has done so by reorganizing factory floors and workspaces in order to allow for a freer and easier flow of parts and products. Most innovation focusses on what gets made. Toyota reinvented how things got made, which enabled it to build cars faster and with less labor than American companies.


http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2008/05/12/080512ta_talk_surowiecki

 

[amastermason]

First things first, EACH unit is different.  Just because your unit RSM allows the wearing of non issue kit, doen't mean the TF RSM will.  Also, don't forget the CO, he may be told by higher that it would be unacceptable.  Plus, the D&S platoon currently here, isn't just on "Gate", they rotate with NSE Force Protection, so they all dont' get stuck doing body cavity searches.  Another thing is, are you BG, RC South, OMLT, PRT,  each one has slightly different rules.  Some guys here right now must wear the CADPAT glove outers, but not the ballistic eyewear.  The rules may not make sense, but if you don't spend all your time in KAF, then the rules do become somewhat overlooked.  I'm not saying that people lie or disobey, but if you're told you are not allowed to wear Oakley's in KAF, then don't.  See the bridge over that one?  A lot of time it comes down to "I don't want to catch you wearing that".  There also is a process of "Trialing" kit overseas, it just has to be put through the sausage grinder in your home unit.  Buy what will make your job easier, and you more efficent, not just cool crap to look good, and out of sight, out of mind.  Cheers, 3 months till I go home.
AND HAPPY CANADA DAY!

 

[customdeluxified]

I normally don't post anything on this site because it usually results in  me getting jacked up, but here it goes. I did the trials on the piece of garbage TV and it along with the other vests that were pretty much identical were all crap. We just picked the one that was the least crappy. They didn't want to hear any suggestions on how to improve the vest as they already had the one they wanted picked out. We actually had to spend hours trying to convince them to put velcro on the mag pouches. They didn't want to do that because they thought it would be too loud. They're mag pouches, if yoiu are changing mags I think the bad guy knows that you are there. The bottom line is that the vest is dangerous. I will be ordering a rig that holds more than 4 mags and has pouches that are secure and accessable. As for the TF RSM. If he don't like it charge me and send me home I am not going to spend time in the most dangerous place on the planet wearing a vest that can get me killed.  Same goes for Balistic eye wear, boots and gloves. If I can afford a better product that increases the chances of me coming home in one piece then I am going to do it. As for the DRDC people Lets just get rid of them and use the money to order kit that is already out there. They have been churning out complete garbage ever since they started. Somebody name a good piece of kit that has been issued lately, and for the sake of all things good don't say the rucksack, I got , it sucks.  I guess you could say the new gortex raingear, but it still isn't that good.

 

[aesop081]

As for the DRDC people Lets just get rid of them and use the money to order kit that is already out there. They have been churning out complete garbage ever since they started.

Ok, heres the part where you get jacked up :

DRDC did not design the TV. When they did their tests on it, they test it against the specifications provided to them by CTS.

Maybe you should make f'ing sure you take aim at the right taget before openning your oral apperature.

 

[Teeps74]

Somebody name a good piece of kit that has been issued lately, and for the sake of all things good don't say the rucksack, I got , it sucks.  I guess you could say the new gortex raingear, but it still isn't that good.

Ok, how about that BEW you seem to loath so much. Fact is, they do what they are designed to do, and that is protect your eyes. There are guys and gals coming out of the sandbox today with their vision intact only because of the BEW.

Is there stuff as good or better on the market? Sure. Would any of that be as viable as a mass produced product? I do not know. Would we all like the Sawflys or other such item? Not a bloody chance. The government has done it's due-dilligence in bringing these things in for us, and I for one am happy to see it. Are there problems with other peices of kit? Sure (Tacvest being one problematic at best peice).

As for DRDC, smearing the unit on the basis of your ignorance is not a very good way to earn brownie points.