Trudeau Popularity - or not (various polling, etc.)

[Remius]

Being an at-home spouse has never been employment or unemployment. If we're going to be precise, "unemployed" applies to people looking for work and not getting it. The closest anyone can come to willful unemployment is looking for work and finding ways to sabotage every opportunity.

Sure but in the context of what was original posted it looked like an argument about cutting handouts to the 40% who don’t pay taxes…

 

[Kirkhill]

so we have allowed 1 million or more new residents into the country. Many of those are either illegal or on student visas. Are they part of the 1.4 million or are they in a separate category? If they are part of the same group, getting rid of the illegals seems like a great solution

Recently, Canada’s temporary residents volume has increased significantly, now reaching up to 2.5 million (6.2% of our population, in 2023).

They can be chiefly broken down into a few main categories:

• 42% international students
• 9% temporary foreign workers under the Temporary Foreign Workers Program
• 44% are temporary workers under the International Mobility Program, which includes further specifics such as those with post-graduate work permits, spousal work permits for students or workers, those temporarily visiting Canada under youth mobility agreements, workers arriving in Canada through intercompany transfers or arrivals through special humanitarian pathways, including those fleeing Ukraine. This program is composed generally of:
  • 26% post-graduate work permit holders,
  • 9% spouses of students
  • 10% part of reciprocal youth exchange programs that in turn allow Canadian youth to work in other countries (i.e. International Experience Class)
  • 12% spouses of skilled workers
  • 26% arrivals, which is growing, through programs like CUAET and other special humanitarian pathways
  • 17% for inter company transfers, trade agreements among others and
• 5% asylum seekers who are waiting for their claim to be heard at the Immigration and Refugee Board

Speaking notes for the Honourable Marc Miller, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship: Announcement related to Temporary Residents - Canada.ca

I want to start by acknowledging that we are gathered on the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe People.

www.canada.ca

In 2021, Canada welcomed the most immigrants in a single year in its history, with nearly 406,000 permanent residents in the economic, family reunification, and refugee/humanitarian streams. This was a remarkable achievement for Canada and relied on robust collaboration and partnership among all levels of government.

2022 Annual Report to Parliament on Immigration - Canada.ca

2022 Annual Report to Parliament on Immigration

www.canada.ca

....

In 2023, there were fewer new home construction starts in Canada than in the previous year. Construction starts peaked in 2021, when there were 271,200 housing units whose construction started that year. Despite the restrictions imposed in Canada during the COVID-19 pandemic, the industry managed to continue operating, with increases in the number of housing starts in 2020 and 2021.

The ability of Canada to supply new houses appears to match the ability of Canada to supply new jobs. Typically about 200-300,000 per year.

Canada - employment 2015-2025 | Statista

The number of employed people in Canada was forecast to continuously increase between 2024 and 2025 by in total 0.3 million people (+1.46 percent).

www.statista.com

One new job, one new house, one new family.

And some portion of those jobs, houses, and families should be expected to be supplied from domestic sources.

....

With six million Canadians currently lacking any affiliation to a family doctor, it’s likely that you or someone you know has firsthand experience reconciling the need for primary care with what many describe as a broken system.

Canada’s medical schools currently graduate just under 3,000 new doctors each year, but family physicians are the slowest growing category. According to data from the Canadian Resident Matching Service (CaRMS), less than 50 per cent of students in medical school will choose family medicine as a career, with less than half of those students opting to provide comprehensive care in clinical settings. That amounts to approximately 700 new family physicians graduating each year.

Cost control through supply management -

The government won't create more doctors than it wants to pay. Conversely doctors won't work unless paid. Result: doctors quit and nobody volunteers to replace them. Even immigrants quickly quit when they realize that there is a reason for a shortage in the first place.

...

Like the budget, immigrants, houses, doctors and jobs will all balance themselves.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Sure but in the context of what was original posted it looked like an argument about cutting handouts to the 40% who don’t pay taxes…

I gather that stems from the allegation, based on what comes out of CCRA and Stats Can, that about 40% of households don't have a net federal tax payable. The whole point of handouts is to help people whose financial circumstances are difficult, which is why I frequently object to anything that has a means test that is reaching well into whatever fits a description of "middle class". I already know with high confidence that there simply aren't very many people actively refusing to work and just getting by on handouts. There isn't much of a discussion to be had if that very small group is muddled with "the 40%" as if the latter were all guilty of work avoidance.

 

[Weinie]

Being an at-home spouse has never been employment or unemployment. If we're going to be precise, "unemployed" applies to people looking for work and not getting it. The closest anyone can come to willful unemployment is looking for work and finding ways to sabotage every opportunity.

Three of my relatives in Nova Scotia enter the chat.

 

[Maxman1]

I believe that most immigrants to this country are here for the jobs many other Canadians aren't interested in doing for minimum wage, no benefits, poor conditions and lousy hours

Fixed it for you.

There's also an unwillingness to speak up about bad conditions out of fears it would jeopardize their immigration status.

 

[CountDC]

Three of my relatives in Nova Scotia enter the chat.

Along with a good number of others that have been doing this for years. From what I hear lately though is that you don't need to do it anymore as Nova Scotia has become a welfare haven with a large chunk of Halifax living off it simply because they can.

Anyone else remember the "1 child we will accept and pay for, second benefit of doubt and pay for, any more children too bad for you as you are not getting any more money" ? Sounded good to me.

 

[Furniture]

I believe that most immigrants to this country are here for the jobs many other Canadians aren't interested in doing, so we probably owe them a debt of gratitude, as opposed to an eviction notice, if nothing else.

Let's not ignore that by importing cheap labour it's also suppressing wages for Canadians.

Temporary foreign workers allow business to treat people poorly, then complain that nobody wants to work...

 

[YZT580]

Very few are "illegals". Many are making a Refugee claim, that in an actual democracy vice a demography, is a legally binding requirement for Canada

any who have exceeded their visa time are illegals. Students who remain after classes end are illegals. Almost all of those who cross from the states are illegals they are not true refugees by the legal definition having transitioned from a so-called safe country so there are many who are illegals.

 

[YZT580]

I believe that most immigrants to this country are here for the jobs many other Canadians aren't interested in doing, so we probably owe them a debt of gratitude, as opposed to an eviction notice, if nothing else.

I believe that most immigrants to this country are here for the jobs many other Canadians aren't interested in doing, so we probably owe them a debt of gratitude, as opposed to an eviction notice, if nothing else.

no we don't. Instead the no work no eat rule needs to be applied to the goldbrickers who refuse to get a job because it is beneath them. Quirky had it right.

 

[YZT580]

Speaking notes for the Honourable Marc Miller, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship: Announcement related to Temporary Residents - Canada.ca

I want to start by acknowledging that we are gathered on the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe People.

www.canada.ca

2022 Annual Report to Parliament on Immigration - Canada.ca

2022 Annual Report to Parliament on Immigration

www.canada.ca

....



The ability of Canada to supply new houses appears to match the ability of Canada to supply new jobs. Typically about 200-300,000 per year.

Canada - employment 2015-2025 | Statista

The number of employed people in Canada was forecast to continuously increase between 2024 and 2025 by in total 0.3 million people (+1.46 percent).

www.statista.com

One new job, one new house, one new family.

And some portion of those jobs, houses, and families should be expected to be supplied from domestic sources.

....





Cost control through supply management -

The government won't create more doctors than it wants to pay. Conversely doctors won't work unless paid. Result: doctors quit and nobody volunteers to replace them. Even immigrants quickly quit when they realize that there is a reason for a shortage in the first place.

...

Like the budget, immigrants, houses, doctors and jobs will all balance themselves.

AND how many of those doctors remain in Canada after graduation?

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Very few are "illegals". Many are making a Refugee claim, that in an actual democracy vice a demography, is a legally binding requirement for Canada

Holy scheisse. Demagoguery not demography. Bloody weekend brain

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think it's very altruistic to want to help everyone, but I think that's a fools errand.

Some people will waste the opportunity of life in pursuit of various vices or activities and there is nothing we can do about that. We don't all make it, we don't all get to have happy lives, we are individually mostly responsible for that outcome.

I interpret that we encourage a disconnection from society and encourage a laziness when we expect those who put in effort and time to pay for those who don't. We provide a safety which tells them not to worry, the system will be there. Perhaps those who disconnect shouldnt have access to the social systems.

I see some validity in social services, but I also think they should be for those who contribute, by and large. With obvious exceptions for disabled and mentally challenged.

I know it's cold, but perhaps that's exactly what's missing.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Fixed it for you.

There's also an unwillingness to speak up about bad conditions out of fears it would jeopardize their immigration status.

Exactly, employers are exploiting the crap out of the system. The whole point wasn’t to find minimum wage employees, rather more skilled labour.

Actual Canadians struggle to get those jobs, it isn’t that they don’t want them.

Employers bring in the worker, treat them terribly ignoring our labour laws (those types of jobs tend to do so to begin with, let alone with vulnerable people), and artificially suppress wages to help keep lower class Canadians poor.

It is not good for anyone but the corporate cheque books.

 

[YZT580]

Exactly, employers are exploiting the crap out of the system. The whole point wasn’t to find minimum wage employees, rather more skilled labour.

Actual Canadians struggle to get those jobs, it isn’t that they don’t want them.

Employers bring in the worker, treat them terribly ignoring our labour laws (those types of jobs tend to do so to begin with, let alone with vulnerable people), and artificially suppress wages to help keep lower class Canadians poor.

It is not good for anyone but the corporate cheque books.

There are some employers who do, yes but there are who hire off-shore because Canadians just won't work. I worked in Niagara after retirement and from personal observation I can state that out of 20 students who start at 7 you might have 5 by quitting time and that is for a relatively easy job like sorting and boxing. Their parents are no better. But the off-shore issue highlights one very serious problem: housing. Local restaurants can't fill positions nor can Beckers and the like often because no one can afford to live in the neighbourhood at minimum wage and running a car the 15 or 20 km each way from the areas they can afford simply costs too much with the price of fuel. All of the businesses that employ off-shore have residences for their staff otherwise they couldn't afford to come up here and as for their treatment, those farms that mistreat their employees end up with the last pickings and get the work they deserve because of it.

 

[ArmyRick]

I think it's very altruistic to want to help everyone, but I think that's a fools errand.

Some people will waste the opportunity of life in pursuit of various vices or activities and there is nothing we can do about that. We don't all make it, we don't all get to have happy lives, we are individually mostly responsible for that outcome.

I interpret that we encourage a disconnection from society and encourage a laziness when we expect those who put in effort and time to pay for those who don't. We provide a safety which tells them not to worry, the system will be there. Perhaps those who disconnect shouldnt have access to the social systems.

I see some validity in social services, but I also think they should be for those who contribute, by and large. With obvious exceptions for disabled and mentally challenged.

I know it's cold, but perhaps that's exactly what's missing.

Rather than helping everyone, I would like to see Canada become a highly productive and regenerative (beyond sustainable) nation that allows everyone to work productively and live comfortably (not luxury) with a layered "social safety net" (minimum expense).

If we set a high standard of living and create a functioning society, instead of trying to move the whole world here (especially for cheap vote grabbing), we set an example for other nations to emulate.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I think it's very altruistic to want to help everyone, but I think that's a fools errand.

Some people will waste the opportunity of life in pursuit of various vices or activities and there is nothing we can do about that. We don't all make it, we don't all get to have happy lives, we are individually mostly responsible for that outcome.

I interpret that we encourage a disconnection from society and encourage a laziness when we expect those who put in effort and time to pay for those who don't. We provide a safety which tells them not to worry, the system will be there. Perhaps those who disconnect shouldnt have access to the social systems.

I see some validity in social services, but I also think they should be for those who contribute, by and large. With obvious exceptions for disabled and mentally challenged.

I know it's cold, but perhaps that's exactly what's missing.

If your a single female with kids who had stopped working to raise kids (lets say the father left and is avoiding paying most of the costs) and you want to work. The cost of daycare swallows everything you just made, plus you lose all of the health and dental benefits for your kids you have on welfare. So they make it hard to get off. I like to see the system award people who go to work and try to get off welfare, by supporting them through the transition period. This above was a real example I saw. She eventually found work that made it worthwhile getting off welfare.

 

[Kirkhill]

Exactly, employers are exploiting the crap out of the system. The whole point wasn’t to find minimum wage employees, rather more skilled labour.

Actual Canadians struggle to get those jobs, it isn’t that they don’t want them.

Employers bring in the worker, treat them terribly ignoring our labour laws (those types of jobs tend to do so to begin with, let alone with vulnerable people), and artificially suppress wages to help keep lower class Canadians poor.

It is not good for anyone but the corporate cheque books.

Not only is it hard on the migrant workers and it represents lost opportunity for Canadians. Not so much from the stand point of the migrants taking jobs away from Canadians directly, very few Canadians are volunteering to do the jobs the way the migrants are doing them regardless of the wages paid, but from the standpoint of lack of productive investment.

I found myself mucking around this same mental playground a couple of days ago when calling for Canada to sell more in order to finance more defence expenditures.

We can produce more. We can grow and manufacture more. And we can do it more cost effectively.

We have the opportunity to continue to be what we have always been, hewers of wood and drawers of water, fishers, farmers, miners and metalworkers. And we can do it more efficiently these days. That is where we should be applying AI. Not developing AI for AI's sake but applying AI to the generation of profit making activities to generate national revenues to support the population that we actually have rather than competing to bring in more serfs to sustain feudal society levels of productivity.

....

Productive investment in applying and developing new technologies that permit fewer people to generate more products for more revenues.

Those revenues, generated while manufacturing and distributing products that benefit humanity and the planet at large, can be used to support Canadians in a leisurely lifestyle - Ideally, in my opinion, one that more closely approximates that of one family supported by one job and enough income for a car (or two), a cottage, a boat, a skidoo (or ATV) and an occasional vacation.

That was within our grasp in the 1960s.

And we were spending over 2% on defence at the time as well as financing universal benefits.

...

It is not about more bodies - that is the mindset of the South and the plantation. It is about steam engines and automation, it is about power and energy - that is the mindset of the North and the Agricultural and Industrial Revolutions.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Not only is it hard on the migrant workers and it represents lost opportunity for Canadians. Not so much from the stand point of the migrants taking jobs away from Canadians directly, very few Canadians are volunteering to do the jobs the way the migrants are doing them regardless of the wages paid, but from the standpoint of lack of productive investment.

The smaller the pool of low-paid labour is, the less it remains low-paid.

 

[YZT580]

If your a single female with kids who had stopped working to raise kids (lets say the father left and is avoiding paying most of the costs) and you want to work. The cost of daycare swallows everything you just made, plus you lose all of the health and dental benefits for your kids you have on welfare. So they make it hard to get off. I like to see the system award people who go to work and try to get off welfare, by supporting them through the transition period. This above was a real example I saw. She eventually found work that made it worthwhile getting off welfare.

too true. There are lots of stories of people who have their income deducted from their cheques as soon as they start working. Needs to be a balance. Why work when 2/3 of your takehome is deducted. You end up working for $5 dollars an hour. Perhaps a minimum of 500 a week before it is subtracted?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Demographics are a cruel reality for most 'first world' countries, and labour shortages are a bigger problem than most people will know about, or countries can easily solve, or alot of businesses can survive...

Labour shortage trends in Canada

Labour Shortage Trends in Canada (PDF, 687.26 KB) Description: Labour shortage trends in CanadaLabour shortage trends in Canada

www.statcan.gc.ca