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Turmoil in Libya (2011) and post-Gaddafi blowback

SecDef and others pretty wary:

Gates: Libyan no-fly zone means attacking Libya
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20038391-503544.html

Although there is a lot of talk about establishing a no-fly zone over Libya, both the secretary of defense and the secretary of state made clear Wednesday it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Capitol Hill that the Obama administration is a "long way" from making a decision about a no-fly zone, and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates explained why.

"Let's call a spade a spade," Gates said at a House Appropriations subcommittee hearing. "A no-fly zone begins with an attack on Libya to destroy the air defenses."

He added that it couldn't be done by a single aircraft carrier off the coast.

"It's a big operation in a big country," Gates said.

On top of that, Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the same subcommittee that the Pentagon has no confirmation that Libyan strongman Muammar al Qaddafi is using his air force to kill civilians.

In other words, there is no need to establish a no-fly zone, at least for now, and no desire within the military to do it period. The U.S. military has long experience with no-fly zones -- more than a decade over Iraq -- and knows what it takes, not just jets but tankers and early warning aircraft.

However, White House press secretary Jay Carney told reporters at his daily briefing that a no-fly zone is being "actively considered."

"We have not ruled any options out," said Carney. "The fact that the no-fly zone idea is complex does not mean it's not on the table."

As Gates pointed out, establishing a no-fly zone requires the use of force to take out the air defense sites that could shoot down any patrolling aircraft, and so far neither the U.N. Security Council nor NATO has authorized the use of force in Libya.

Mark
Ottawa
 
Thucydides said:
Saw the weirdest thing on the info bar while watching CTV news this morning:

"Gaddafi placed $2 billion in Canadian banks after vist with then Prime Minister Paul Martin in 2004" (paraphrase)

While I doubt Prime Minister Martin personally invited Gaddafi to open a savings account, I would be very interested to know the meaning and circumstances behind this. Was Gaddafi being invited or encouraged to invest in Canada?  Is this money deposited in accounts owned by Gaddafi? The Lybian government? Corporations (real or shell) headquartered in Lybia? Is it in Canadian government bonds? Canadian corporate stocks and bonds?

This is a story that really needs to be followed up.

Agreed. 

Martin government in 2004 with Petro-Canada (now called Suncor): 1 Billion Dollar signing bonus allotted to Gaddafi:

http://wikileaks.ch/cable/2008/06/08TRIPOLI498.html

Petro-Canada has signed a series of 30-year contracts with Libya's National Oil Corporation (NOC), bringing its old agreements into line with Libya's preferred EPSA-IV contract standard.  The new deals stem from Libya's ongoing efforts to secure tougher terms from foreign oil companies, and mark the growing importance of Libya to Petro-Canada.  End Summary.  DONE DEAL - AT LAST  2. (SBU)  On June 19, representatives from Petro-Canada and the NOC signed a total of six contracts covering all of Petro-Canada's acreage in Libya.  The contracts were crafted under the NOC's EPSA IV agreement template, which has become the preferred framework for all international oil companies (IOCs) working in Libya (reftel).  An agreement signed by the NOC and Petro-Canada in December 2007 was recently ratified by the General People's Congress, paving the way to sign the actual contracts.  3. (SBU)  Under the new deals, Petro-Canada has committed to pay a $1 billion signing bonus and invest $3.5 billion in the redevelopment of several large producing fields, and $460 million in oil and gas exploration.  Petro-Canada will pay 50% of all development costs and 100% of all exploration costs.

Canada could stand to lose 50 Billion
http://www.canada.com/business/could+lose+billion+Gaddafi+falls/4340401/story.html

This is a 2004 Amnesty International Report on Libya:  http://www.amnestyusa.org/annualreport.php?id=ar&yr=2004&c=LBY  Can also click on the years (right hand column by year), can see how things were prior to 2004, and after and presently.  Related documents as well. 

http://www.economist.com/node/18231320

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/02/22/john-ivison-embracing-gaddafi-was-canadas-shame/

http://www.canada.com/business/could+lose+billion+Gaddafi+falls/4340401/story.html





 
Thucydides said:
While I doubt Prime Minister Martin personally invited Gaddafi to open a savings account, I would be very interested to know the meaning and circumstances behind this. Was Gaddafi being invited or encouraged to invest in Canada?  Is this money deposited in accounts owned by Gaddafi? The Lybian government? Corporations (real or shell) headquartered in Lybia? Is it in Canadian government bonds? Canadian corporate stocks and bonds?

This is a story that really needs to be followed up.
~shrug~  Apparently, it's "just politics."

Paul Martin had a very close relationship with several high-ranking Tamil Tiger personnel. See Stewart Bell, Ch 2 "Snow Tigers," Cold Terror: How Canada Nurtures and Exports Terrorism Around the World.

But then, he was the Liberal PM....and the ex-pat Tamil community was in his riding -- it's only votes, right?
 
.... here:
The Canadian Forces launched Operation MOBILE on 25 February 2011 to assist the departure of Canadians and other foreign nationals from Libya. Op MOBILE is part of a whole-of-government effort led by the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (DFAIT).

Joint Task Force Malta

Joint Task Force Malta is the Canadian Forces team based in Valletta, the capital of the Mediterranean island nation of Malta, to help the staff of the Embassy of Canada to Libya — temporarily relocated to Valletta — assist the departure of Canadian citizens and other entitled persons who wish to leave Libya.

One CC-177 Globemaster strategic airlifter and two CC-130J Hercules tactical airlifters are currently based at Malta International Airport, near Valletta on the largest island of the Maltese Archipelago. An Operational Liaison and Reconnaissance Team (OLRT) of 13 personnel deployed on 26 February 2011, accompanied by aircrews, Military Police, medical personnel. Co-ordination staff, logisticians and technicians soon followed, for a total of about 70 CF members as of 2 March 2011 ....
 
Navalsnipr said:
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110301/libya-rescue-aborted-110301/

CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Tue. Mar. 1 2011 2:28 PM ET
A Canadian Forces C-130J Hercules aircraft was denied landing rights in Tripoli Tuesday and had to return to Malta without the load of oil workers that officials had hoped to evacuate.

The military transport departed Malta on Tuesday for the Libyan capital, but was waved off before it arrived.

"There basically wasn't any ramp space for the Hercules aircraft to land at Tripoli airport," said CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife.

"It is very, very busy. There are planes coming in constantly and by the time the Hercules aircraft left Malta and got to Tripoli airport there was nowhere for it to land and it had to turn around and go back to Malta."

The plane has now returned to Malta and another flight is scheduled for Wednesday. It isn't clear which company the oil workers are employed by, or how many there are.

Meanwhile, an order has just been issued to send a Canadian frigate from Halifax to the region.

Fife reported that the frigate will only be used for evacuation and humanitarian purposes, not military ones. The vessel will be in the region in case the unrest continues to spread into other countries.

It could take about a week to get to the region from Halifax.

Canada has had trouble organizing evacuations for the Canadians stuck in Libya over the past two weeks.

At least two charter planes landed in Tripoli but left empty, because there were apparently no Canadians at the airport waiting to be flown out.

And a C-17 military transport was denied landing rights in Libya last week and sat on the tarmac in Rome for days awaiting the necessary approvals.

Now Canada has two C-17 transport planes and one C-130 stationed in Malta, making rescue efforts much easier, said Fife.

Canada also has a military reconnaissance team and nine combat medics in Malta.

I love the media LOL! That C17 did NOT sit there for days.....hours maybe. Not days!!  :rofl:
 
I hate these stories that cover more than one issue, especially when both are significant. This one, from the MSNBC web site, is posted under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act.

Libya detains NATO troops during rescue mission

Three Dutch marines were being held by authorities in Libya after they were captured by forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi while trying to rescue stranded workers, officials said Thursday.

The trio were surrounded by armed men and captured Sunday after landing near Sirte in a Lynx helicopter that was on board the navy ship HMS Tromp, which is anchored off the Libyan coast to help evacuations from the conflict-torn country, Dutch Defense Ministry spokesman Otte Beeksma told The Associated Press.

News of the marines' detention by Gadhafi came a day after the Libyan Human Rights League estimated the death toll in the conflict stood at 6,000, the Egyptian newspaper Al-Masry Al-Youm reported.

On Wednesday, anti-government rebels fought off forces loyal to Gadhafi — who were supported by airstrikes — in a fierce battle for Brega, a strategic oil facility 460 miles east of Gadhafi's stronghold in Tripoli.

On Thursday, witnesses told Reuters that a warplane had again bombed Brega while about 50 miles to the east rebels shored up the defenses of the town of Ajdabiya with rocket launchers, anti-tank aircraft guns and tanks.

Gadhafi's militant response to anti-government protests could lead to international charges. Later Thursday, the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, was scheduled to announce he is opening an investigation into possible crimes against humanity committed in Libya.

..It was unclear if the Dutch troops were being held hostage by Gadhafi.

.Beeksma said that Dutch officials were in "intensive negotiations" with Gadhafi's government to secure the marines' release, he said.

"We have also been in contact with the crewmen involved," Beeksma said. "They are doing well under the circumstances and we hope they will be released as quickly as possible."

Asked if the Netherlands, which is a member of NATO, considered the marines hostages, Beeksma said, "they are being held by Libyan authorities."

Two people the marines were trying to rescue also were captured but have since been released and have left Libya. The identities of the marines were not released.

Gadhafi's forces were regrouping in an attempt to regain territories now controlled by opponents of his regime.

Witnesses in Brega told Reuters a jet fighter had attacked the town Thursday.

"I heard the plane, then the explosion, then saw the crater," Mohammed Shibli said, adding that the bomb landed near the university for oil engineering which is about a mile from the city's oil exporting terminal.

"There was an airstrike about an hour and a half ago. I saw it with my own eyes," another witness Awadh Mohammed, a volunteer with the rebel forces, said.

The rebels were preparing for a renewed offensive by Gadhafi loyalists.

A Twitter message on Thursday, which could not be corroborated, spoke of reinforcements for Gadhafi's forces.

"Cars reported to be full of mercenaries with the intention of joining the battalion outside Ras Lanuf to head to Brega to regain," read the message from ShababLibya (Libyan Youth Movement). "It seems 70 cars have arrived near the town of Ras Lanuf to support a battalion to attack the city of Brega and regain airport."

In Ajdabiya, home to a military arms dump, rebel fighters were trying to work out how to use more advanced weapons and appeared determined to hold their ground.

.At one entrance to the town, rebels worked through the night to consolidate defenses, adding rocket launchers, anti-tank weapons and anti-aircraft guns. Rebels also manned three tanks.

"Praise God we have weapons," said rebel fighter Drees Abdulwahid, 42, smiling and raising both hands to the sky.

Another rebel fighter said he had four days training in how to use an anti-aircraft gun.

Others struggled to load the belts of 10-inch long bullets into the weapon. One young man staggered under the weight of the belt.

Gadhafi loyalists bombed the town from the air Wednesday as its ground forces stabbed at Brega.

Peace plan
As the conflict continued, Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa said a peace plan for Libya from Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez was under consideration.

 
Three Dutch Marines were captured by forces loyal to Gaddafi after a failed rescue attempt.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_netherlands_libya_marines_held

THE HAGUE, Netherlands – Three Dutch marines were captured by forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi during a rescue attempt of two European workers and are being held by Libyan authorities for five days, a Defense Ministry spokesman said Thursday.

The two Europeans, one Dutch and one whose nationality was not released, were handed over unharmed to the Dutch embassy in Tripoli Thursday and have left Libya, the ministry said.

The three were surrounded by armed men on Sunday after landing near Sirte in a Lynx helicopter from the navy ship HMS Tromp, which was anchored off the Libyan coast to help evacuations from the conflict-torn country, spokesman Otte Beeksma told The Associated Press.

Dutch officials are in "intensive negotiations" with Gadhafi's government to secure the marines' release, he said.

"We have also been in contact with the crewmen involved," Beeksma said. "They are doing well under the circumstances and we hope they will be released as quickly as possible."

Defense Minister Hans Hillen welcomed the news that the two Europeans were safe and had left Libya. "Everything is being done to also get the crew safely out of the country as soon as possible," he said in a statement.

Asked if the Dutch government considered the marines hostages, Beeksma said, "they are being held by Libyan authorities."

Prime Minister Mark Rutte said news of the men's capture was kept quiet to assist talks on their release. Dutch daily De Telegraaf first reported their capture in its Thursday edition.

"These are situations that benefit from total secrecy because then you can carry out discussions in peace to ensure these people get home safely," he told national broadcaster NOS.

"It is terrible for the crew of the Lynx helicopter," Rutte said. "Everything is being done to make sure the crew gets home."

The identities of the marines were not released.

News of the marines' detention by Gadhafi came a day after anti-government rebels fought off forces loyal to Gadhafi in a fierce battle for Brega, a strategic oil facility 460 miles (740 kilometers) east of Gadhafi's stronghold in Tripoli.

Gadhafi's crackdown has been the harshest in the Arab world to the wave of anti-government protests sweeping across parts of the Middle East and North Africa. His forces are regrouping in an attempt to regain territories now controlled by opponents of his regime.

Later Thursday, the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, is scheduled to announce he is opening an investigation into possible crimes against humanity committed in Libya.
 
Old Sweat said:
...a peace plan for Libya from Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez was under consideration.
Now that should be entertaining.  :pop:
 
Journeyman said:
Now that should be entertaining.  :pop:

Where's the "Fill Up Your Tank Before Gas Hits $1.75 a Litre" icon?  Chavez and Gadaffi (or however we're anglicizing his name today) are quite the team.
 
A bit more on the NLD Marines, from the NLD Ministry of Defence:
Dutch armed forces personnel detained in Libya

3 March 2011, 11.04 hour

Last Sunday afternoon a naval helicopter from the Dutch frigate HNLMS Tromp, engaged in a consular evacuation operation in Sirte, was prevented from taking off by an armed Libyan unit loyal to the current regime.

Talks with the Libyan authorities about the situation thus created were launched immediately by the ship's command and by the Dutch authorities in The Hague. The 2 evacuees were transferred today by the Libyans to the Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands in Tripoli. Intensive diplomatic talks are still under way concerning the release of the helicopter's 3 crew members.

The Minister of Defence Hans Hillen and the Chief of Defence general Peter van Uhm express their concern about the crew that is being held captive. The Minister: "We sympathize with the uncertainty of the relatives of the crew. Everything is being done for the safe return of the helicopter crew."

The relatives of the detained military personnel and of the evacuees have been kept informed of developments. For security reasons, this information was not made public earlier and no further information will be released.
 
Because why ELSE would Canada do something?  This from the World Socialists ::)
.... Like the other imperialist powers, the Canadian government is depicting its plans to intervene militarily in Libya as born of altruism—of abhorrence at the repressive actions of Colonel Gaddafi’s regime, fear for the lives of ordinary Libyans as the country descends into civil war, and concern for the spread of democracy in North Africa and the Middle East.

This is poppycock. If Canada’s government is plotting with the US and the European Union to intervene in Libya, it is because the popular upsurge that has toppled Mubarak in Egypt and Ben Ali in Tunisia, hobbled Gaddafi, and challenged governments throughout North Africa and the Middle East is threatening vital imperialist economic and geo-strategic interests ....
 
milnews.ca said:
Because why ELSE would Canada do something?  This from the World Socialists ::)


Nice to see that the same old party line is still being propagated by the same old gang. Leon Trotsky would be so proud.
 
is threatening vital imperialist economic and geo-strategic interests ....
Geo-strategic interests?! Hell ya; at all costs we must keep that vital land route open between the Mediterranean and Chad!
:facepalm:
 
This piece by Conrad Black should drive the usual suspects nuts. It appears in today's National Post and is reproduced under the Fair Dealings provision of the Copyright Act.

How Canada can help save Libya

Conrad Black, National Post · Saturday, Mar. 5, 2011

It was a signal achievement for the UN Security Council to censure Libya for barbarities against civilians. Also laudable was the UN General Assembly's decision to suspend Libya from its preposterous position as chair of the Human Rights Council. But otherwise, the toing and froing of the Western powers over Libya is becoming alarming: Bold talk of a no-fly zone and of military assistance for the rebels has given way to quavering about getting into the kinds of difficulties we had in Afghanistan and Iraq, where we armed groups that later became our enemies. Republican U.S. Senator Lindsay Graham darkly warned that "there are 30 tribes in Libya." So there are, but most of them are now targets for massacre by Muammar Gaddafi.

This sort of shilly-shallying was what produced the European Union Bosnian policy in the 1990s, which consisted of sanctions and an arms embargo that were utterly porous in regard to Serbia, but relatively enforced on the Muslim Bosnians, and were unctuously presented as an even-handed treatment of contesting forces on a level playing field. This outrage persisted, with the Clinton administration pretending it wasn't happening, until the Republican leader of the Senate, Robert Dole, called it by its rightful name as complicity in the ethnic cleansing of the Muslims by the Serbs and the Croatians. (Dole pushed through his "lift and strike" resolution threatening to wrest the status of commander-inchief of the armed forces from the president, and required that the Muslims be allowed to resupply and that air strikes be carried out against Serbia to deter Milosevic's aggression in Bosnia.)

There followed a rather ambivalent, not to say cowardly, policy, in which American and Allied planes did not descend below 15,000 feet out of fear of Serbian ground-to-air missiles, but rained down precision fire on strategic targets until -following the separate Kosovo campaign in 1999 -the Milosevic regime in Belgrade collapsed. What emerged was the notion of a war worth killing for, but not worth dying for, leading to heavy collateral damage in Serbia and a distinct lack of enthusiasm for the "liberators" of Belgrade. The West absolutely must not go through any such indignity again.

The martial traditions of America were not assisted then by president Clinton weeping at the fate of a single American airman who parachuted out of his aircraft and was captured. (He was released unharmed after a few weeks.) Previous American war presidents who had to deal with hundreds of thousands of war dead were made of sterner stuff, and spoke of the need "to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widows and his orphans" (Lincoln), and the courage and "faith to bear the sorrows that may come" (Roosevelt). After the equal-opportunity muscularity of the George W. Bush years, and the promising Obama start in Afghanistan, Washington seems to have retreated even from there.

What is developing in Libya is a civil war in which, so far, the West has enjoyed the free lunch of cheering on the rebels, without having to do anything except extract their own nationals and send some humanitarian aid. Now that the rebels are being counterattacked from the air by Gaddafi's air force, and are asking for military assistance, there is arm-flapping, hand-wringing and general waffling in the chancelleries of the West as we quiver in fear of the rag-bag detritus of the mad Colonel's decrepit military.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates told a congressional committee that, "Let's call a spade a spade: A no-fly zone means attacking Libya" (referring to the need to eliminate anti-aircraft batteries). So what? The United States cheerfully fires drone missiles into the territory of its glorious Pakistani ally (which supports elements of the Taliban we are fighting in Afghanistan) every day. Barack Obama, while his defence chief quails at taking out the anti-aircraft defences of the murderous lunatic Gaddafi, unctuously repeats that the Libyan leader "has lost the legitimacy to lead and he must leave." But such people don't just leave, and certainly not because such ungalvanizing figures as Obama tell him to leave.

I cannot accept that the West has reached the point of enfeeblement that we sit like worried, helpless sheep while Iran arms itself with nuclear weapons, and are afraid to assist a clear majority in Libya get rid of a murderous fruitcake of a despot. At the time of Munich, Winston Churchill called for the return of "martial courage of olden time." Here, we could settle for the purposefulness of the unprepossessing George W. in the Iraq Surge or of Obama escalating in Afghanistan. If NATO (the U.S. Sixth Fleet in practice) can't take out Libyan air defenses at no or minimal cost, we should all start studying Arabic and spending an hour a day with our foreheads pressed to the floor.

The best solution to Libya, as I suggested here recently, would be an Arab one; the fraternal invasion of Libya by Egypt, in support of an amenable regime, as all friendly parties engaged in the expulsion of Gaddafi would welcome such an initiative, and Egypt could negotiate in advance a revenue-producing arrangement for itself in securing the pacification of the country and the full resumption of oil flows. The Egyptian army would raise its prestige doing so, but if it is too preoccupied assuring a satisfactory result in the post-Mubarak election, the West will simply have to carry the anti-Gaddafi rebels across the finish line (and collect some credit for doing so).

At least all indications are that in the buzz of collegiality with which the West is noisily worrying about the dangers of doing anything about Libya except imitating King Canute from the White House balcony, Canada is being consulted. And there is something Canada can do, which would be noticed by our allies: We should recognize the provisional government of Libya as legitimate, and make contact with it. This could have a catalytic effect, inspirit the rebels, nudge the Americans and Europeans into doing something, and generally start a rockslide around Gaddafi.

The Europeans, who are disposed to do something, would be grateful, and so would the U.S. Republicans, at the moment the majority party in the United States. Even President Obama says that Gaddafi lacks legitimacy; so let us confer legitimacy on those who have earned it. A gangster and terrorist regime is slaughtering its own population, which is fighting back gallantly. We owe them our support, and every day's delay is shameful and could make a benign outcome more doubtful. For once, Canada could make a difference and be seen by the world to do so. There is no excuse for waiting.

National Post cbletters@ gmail.com
 
Conrad Black is just echoing the voicing of the Opposition parties and others who are demanding our "Harper's Government"  :-X  to "do something", whether it is install a no fly zone or other R2P provisions.

Those voices are the most dangerous to us CF members as it is those which will force us into situations where we will be placed in very uncomfortable situations like the FRY and other poorly conceived missions of the 90's.
 
I am going to go waaay out on a limb to say that maybe the best result

is for Gaddafi's forces to brutally crush the uprising, thus keeping him in power. My reason for stating this is based on nothing more noble than blatant self interest, but consider:

a. he is anti-Islamist, and by remaining in power, puts off the establishment of the "Islamist crescent" for an indefinite period of time;

b. his presence between Tunisia and Egypt means that both must deal with a potentially hostile power on their flank. This will reduce the potential for Egyptian adventures against Israel, if that country's armed forces were ever so disposed;

c. ditto for deep Saharan states such as Chad and the Sudan as well as Mali et al;

d. his stock of chemical weapons remains under the control of a despot who has renounced their use; and

e. his success is apt to encourage some of the other states such as Yemen and even Saudia Arabia in their resolve.

I really would like to see him hanging by his heels a la Mussolini, but a nagging voice keeps telling me that may not be as good a thing as we think. Besides I would love to see several talking heads explode in HD.
 
Re: Conrad Black's column, it would take some guts (notable lacking in many (most? almost all?) Western capitals) but we could -

1.  Recognize the "provisional government" in Libya and offer it some aid: food, medicines - no arms, the gods know that Africa is already awash in arms, no one needs any more there;

2. Expel Gadhafi loyalists from embassies and consulates in Western nations;

3. Blockade Libyan ports and airports and cut all oil pipelines; and

4. Wait for the Libyan people to "do the right things" ... or not.
 
Rider Pride said:
Conrad Black is just echoing the voicing of the Opposition parties and others who are demanding our "Harper's Government"  :-X  to "do something", whether it is install a no fly zone or other R2P provisions.

Those voices are the most dangerous to us CF members as it is those which will force us into situations where we will be placed in very uncomfortable situations like the FRY and other poorly conceived missions of the 90's.

The R2P crowd drives me nuts.  They never do the practical calculus on the other side of the equation, which is W2I, or Will To Intervene.  Perhaps even more importantly, they never consider the key limiter, which is M2I or Means to Intervene.  Policy objectives must be matched to available elements of national power rather than aspirational statements unlimited by means.
 
Excellent points. Currently, our country's citzens, after Afghanistan, do not have W2I, nor does our CF currently have M2I in any size that will provide any effect, except to allow the "Harper Gov't" to point and say, "look what we are doing", in response to the obvious Opposition talking point of "they aren't doing enough on this file".
 
Why does Canada need an activist, possibly interventionist one, in this case?  Other than to try to assert something that is pretty debatable: that we are a middle ("principal" in the more recent conceit) power punching like crazy to achieve...what?  Other than being seen to be doing something with no clear idea of what national interests are actually being forwarded in a practical fashion.  Foreign and defence policy as theatre for an almost exclusively domestic audience.

The Charlottetown may get us a tiny bit of say with others.  But what do we want, better need, to say?  Other than blithering platitudes?  The expenses of the ship deployment might better go to various forms of humanitarian help.  I can barely believe I just wrote that but...

Mark
Ottawa
 
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