U.S. Annexing Canada (split fm Liberal Minority thread)

[IKnowNothing]

My big question-
Are consequences the result of us not having our shit together, and a genuine, quasi-good faith (if ridiculously ham-handed) attempt to lever us into getting our shit together in areas that America has direct interest in
Or
Is us not having our shit together an excuse to lever consequences to attempt to claim greater control over things we have -freshwater, oil, minerals, trade lanes.

 

[The Bread Guy]

spending 3% of GDP on the military doesnt lessen the impact of tariffs. We can assume that the issues are linked but are they?

Especially if it's true what's being bandied about that POTUS47 is just happy to use tariffs as a way to pull in sweet, sweet revenue to spend elsewhere. If that's the case, nothing'll be enough to stop the import taxes.

 

[brihard]

My big question-
Are consequences the result of us not having our shit together, and a genuine, quasi-good faith (if ridiculously ham-handed) attempt to lever us into getting our shit together in areas that America has direct interest in
Or
Is us not having our shit together an excuse to lever consequences to attempt to claim greater control over things we have -freshwater, oil, minerals, trade lanes.

With who’s coming in I strongly believe the latter.

Trump is the ‘right now’ problem, but a larger issue is what he’s emboldening and normalizing. It’s not hard to find Americans talking openly about taking over Canada. Trump could drop dead from a heart attack tomorrow and that threat to our sovereignty that he’s released from the Pandora’s box of imperialistic and hyper nationalistic MAGA bullshit would remain a major problem.

 

[Halifax Tar]

My big question-
Are consequences the result of us not having our shit together, and a genuine, quasi-good faith (if ridiculously ham-handed) attempt to lever us into getting our shit together in areas that America has direct interest in
Or
Is us not having our shit together an excuse to lever consequences to attempt to claim greater control over things we have -freshwater, oil, minerals, trade lanes.

I think if we had been carrying our weight and been a good neighbor and ally we wouldn't be in this position.

We've been called out on this for generations and ignored it. The chickens have come home to roost.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Understandably different emotional reactions and intellectual approach to the discussion based on which viewpoint you hold. One leads to a resigned "you reap what you sow" frustration, the other anger at an existential threat to our sovereignty created by the supposed leader of the free world deciding to ditch the niceties of the rules based world order. Easy to talk past each other, and no way to tell which is correct.

I think if we had been carrying our weight and been a good neighbor and ally we wouldn't be in this position.

We've been called out on this for generations and ignored it. The chickens have come home to roost.

With who’s coming in I strongly believe the latter.

Trump is the ‘right now’ problem, but a larger issue is what he’s emboldening and normalizing. It’s not hard to find Americans talking openly about taking over Canada. Trump could drop dead from a heart attack tomorrow and that threat to our sovereignty that he’s released from the Pandora’s box of imperialistic and hyper nationalistic MAGA bullshit would remain a major problem.

 

[suffolkowner]

I think if we had been carrying our weight and been a good neighbor and ally we wouldn't be in this position.

We've been called out on this for generations and ignored it. The chickens have come home to roost.

hard for me to reconcile that viewpoint with the general view on tariffs, trade imbalances, Greenland and Panama

 

[OldSolduer]

We cannot govern each other without infighting.

My pea brain tells me the USA would have a very difficult time trying to govern us.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Canada isn't going to become a US state any time soon. Admission to the Union (Wikipedia). The executive branch can't do it alone. It should be obvious by inspection that political interests (the perception of how Canadians would vote in presidential and congressional elections - majority Democratic) will cause sane Republicans to block any such attempts. There is nothing more than a fringe minority in any region of this country seriously interested in joining the US.

If Canada were to fracture, conceivably pieces might eventually petition to become US states - especially pieces with large populations close to the US border. The real threats to Canada are internal dissatisfaction with federal-provincial relations and with the continuing slide of Canadians' ability to consume goods and services compared to Americans. A lot of Canadians live close to a border, and I'd be surprised if many young Canadians and recent immigrants who haven't formed strong attachments wouldn't be attracted to a higher standard of consumption. Those risk factors are correctable, but not by blindly following social ideologies.

This is a time-wasting distraction; surely there are enough other things going on in Canada and the world for people - especially journalists - to focus on besides stoking their anti-Trump mania with his latest idiocy.

 

[Halifax Tar]

hard for me to reconcile that viewpoint with the general view on tariffs, trade imbalances, Greenland and Panama

You're right if had been a serious country, steadfast ally and good neighbor this never would have happened.

 

[Jarnhamar]

May trying to get in on the action.

Social media fans hail Green Party leader who invites California to become Canadian province​

She noted: “We do not aspire to be the 51st state ... If it was a joke, it was never funny, and it ends now.”

Straight forward, to the point. Not bad.

Then she makes the same stupid comments herself.

She suggested instead that it would be an excellent idea for America’s West Coast states to join its welcoming northern neighbor in solidarity. Given California’s Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom’s tense relationship with Trump, it could be tempting.

“Maybe California would like to be the 11th province. How ‘bout it, California? Oregon? Washington? We’ve got geography in common,” she urged.

“This is what we’ve got for you: Free healthcare, universal, free healthcare. No more one-year-olds who suddenly fall off the Medicaid list, and their parents are on the news because they’re trying to do a GoFundMe, because they’re trying to get their daughter to a doctor,” May mocked.

“California citizens, Washington, Oregon: Safer streets here, we already have strict gun laws, and women have the right to an abortion under the universal healthcare system,” she crowed.

 

[JLB50]

What’s interesting about all this is Trump’s varying claims about security regarding Canada, Greenland and the Panama Canal. Trump says basically that the eradication of our “artificially drawn” border will all but eliminate security concerns. Interestingly, he doesn’t talk about annexing Mexico, which is a far greater security threat than people and drugs flowing across the border from Canada. Or is Mexico just one of those negligible “shithole” countries Trump has talked about?

Greenland? Yeah, I know…missiles…subs…but not drugs or people swimming across the waters to get to the newly expanded 51 states of America. Or maybe expand it to include Norway? Lebensraum? Jawohl, das ist sehr wichtig! (followed by stiffened right arm salute).

Panama Canal…started by the French, finished by the Americans and built in large portions by Chinese labourers. Now, evidently, several of the Panamanian ports are owned by Chinese companies.

Many of Trump’s admirers say that his laying claim to Canada is part of his negotiating genius. If so, what he has done in the process is to legitimize any claims that Russia may have towards Ukraine, Latvia, Estonian, Lithuania, Finland, Poland and several other European states. Or is it just possible that Trump, the man who never really seems to say a bad thing about Vlad Putin, is willing to concede Eastern Europe to him in return for Putin accepting American domination of North America and Greenland? Raising the NATO minimum spending requirement to 5% GDP (his latest talking point) could help break NATO apart. Or could it be that it’s what he hopes to do?

Finally, let’s not forget China. By saying that Canada is an artificial created country and that the U.S. deserves to have Greenland and the Panama Canal Trump has managed to open a vast Pandora’s box by legitimizing China’s claims to Taiwan and other areas known as the Nine-Dash-Line region of the South China Sea.

Trump may be a messianic figure to many Americans and some Canadians but IMHO he is a dangerous would-be/will-be dictator who is leading all of us down a very dark path. I only hope that those Congressmen and Senators who are currently siding with him finally wake up and limit most of his power to just empty rhetoric.

 

[KevinB]

What’s interesting about all this is Trump’s varying claims about security regarding Canada, Greenland and the Panama Canal. Trump says basically that the eradication of our “artificially drawn” border will all but eliminate security concerns. Interestingly, he doesn’t talk about annexing Mexico, which is a far greater security threat than people and drugs flowing across the border from Canada. Or is Mexico just one of those negligible “shithole” countries Trump has talked about?

Annexing Mexico would be a net loss for us.

Annexing Canada would be a train wreck for a number of reasons, that it should be considered bluster to attempt to get Canada to actually do something about it's security situation.

Greenland? Yeah, I know…missiles…subs…but not drugs or people swimming across the waters to get to the newly expanded 51 states of America. Or maybe expand it to include Norway? Lebensraum? Jawohl, das ist sehr wichtig! (followed by stiffened right arm salute).

We bought Alaska from the Russians, and the discussion about Greenland seem to be more transactionally based, as Democratic Senators and House Reps have mentioned it recently as well.

Panama Canal…started by the French, finished by the Americans and built in large portions by Chinese labourers. Now, evidently, several of the Panamanian ports are owned by Chinese companies.

Many of Trump’s admirers say that his laying claim to Canada is part of his negotiating genius. If so, what he has done in the process is to legitimize any claims that Russia may have towards Ukraine, Latvia, Estonian, Lithuania, Finland, Poland and several other European states. Or is it just possible that Trump, the man who never really seems to say a bad thing about Vlad Putin, is willing to concede Eastern Europe to him in return for Putin accepting American domination of North America and Greenland? Raising the NATO minimum spending requirement to 5% GDP (his latest talking point) could help break NATO apart. Or could it be that it’s what he hopes to do?

Keep in mind I am not the biggest DJT fan, but I think your doomsaying is a little out there - 5% is an unfortunate potential necessity if the West doesn't at least get to 3% and address the RIC issues going on.

Finally, let’s not forget China. By saying that Canada is an artificial created country and that the U.S. deserves to have Greenland and the Panama Canal Trump has managed to open a vast Pandora’s box by legitimizing China’s claims to Taiwan and other areas known as the Nine-Dash-Line region of the South China Sea.

Rhetoric is not policy - China already claims Taiwan, and if the world had any real backbone, ROC would have been formally recognized.

Trump may be a messianic figure to many Americans and some Canadians but IMHO he is a dangerous would-be/will-be dictator who is leading all of us down a very dark path. I only hope that those Congressmen and Senators who are currently siding with him finally wake up and limit most of his power to just empty rhetoric.

The President really has no actual power, unless supported by the House and Senate.

 

[QV]

For those with tendencies to react bitterly to everything Trump says, Carson Jerema writing in the NP attempts to bring the temperature down on the subject:

Carson Jerema: The phoney Donald Trump annexation crisis

Latest musings about Canada becoming the 51st state are just more of the same trolling

nationalpost.com

 

[Kilted]

Apparently, Trump has said that he will not invade Canada, but would not commit to the same for Panama and Greenland. Greenland, of course, is part of the Kingdom of Denmark, a NATO member, which would trigger an Article 5 situation.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/08/politics/trump-greenland-canada-panama-analysis/index.html

 

[Haggis]

Saw this elsewhere on social media posted on an anti-gunner site, so this is a bit of a crossover post between here and the gun control 2.0 thread, but it's too ironic and funny to not share.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Saw this elsewhere on social media posted on an anti-gunner site, so this is a bit of a crossover post between here and the gun control 2.0 thread, but it's too ironic and funny to not share.
View attachment 90337

I think it's great that people who believed we are a racist country and post national state (lefties) are suddenly passionate Canadians.

Or is it they are just passionate anti-americans ?

 

[daftandbarmy]

I think it's great that people who believed we are a racist country and post national state (lefties) are suddenly passionate Canadians.

Or is it they are just passionate anti-americans ?

As it turns out Canadian nationalism is pretty unique, and different from the US variety:

Canadians have different concept of nationalism than U.S., surveys show​

"...a series of surveys suggest the idea of being a nationalist, and nationalism in general, are viewed fairly positively by most Canadians.

What the data suggests is that Canadians don’t see the concept of nationalism the way people do in the United States, where the term is often linked with white-nationalist groups, and then with white supremacy and racism.

Rather, Canadians appear to have constructed their view of nationalism on the idea of feeling connected to our country and ensuring that others feel connected as well – even as we watch the term pilloried globally."

Canadians have different concept of nationalism than U.S., surveys show - National | Globalnews.ca

Surveys show that Canadians don't correspond nationalism with white supremacy, but with being connected to the country.

globalnews.ca

 

[The Bread Guy]

... Or is it they are just passionate anti-americans ?

Toe-MAY-toe, toe-MAH-toe ....

 

[brihard]

Just learned that the company that makes Ozempic is Danish. The plot thiccens…

 

[The Bread Guy]

Just learned that the company that makes Ozempic is Danish. The plot thiccens…

Like a good croissant or biscuit, lotsa layers there - well played!