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US Election: 2016

The Syrian refugee issue also reaches the US presidential candidates' debates.

Apparently the official figure is 10,000, though there is apparent confusion...

Washington Post

Repeat after me: Obama is not admitting 100,000, 200,000 or 250,000 Syrian refugees
By Glenn Kessler November 18

“If we’re going to be bringing 200,000 people over here from that region — if I were one of the leaders of the global jihadist movement and I didn’t infiltrate that group of people with my people, that would be almost malpractice.”

— Ben Carson, Nov. 13, 2015

“I am angry that President Obama unilaterally decides that we’ll accept up to 100,000 Syrian refugees while his administration admits we cannot determine their ties to terrorism.”

— Former Hewlett Packard chief executive Carly Fiorina, Nov. 14

“Our president wants to take in 250,000 from Syria. I mean, think of it. 250,000 people. And we all have heart. And we all want people taken care of and all of that. But with the problems our country has, to take in 250,000 people — some of whom are going to have problems, big problems.”

— businessman Donald Trump, Nov. 14

“When the president says things like, you know, through an executive order, ‘I’m going to bring 100,000 people in here from Syria,’ Congress needs to say ‘you do that and we’re going to defund everything including your breakfast.’ “

— Carson, quoted in a SuperPac ad released Nov. 17

Sometimes fact checks have an impact, sometimes unfortunately they don’t.

In October, Donald Trump earned Four Pinocchios for repeatedly making the outlandish claim that President Obama was planning to admit 200,000 refugees from war-torn Syria.

Rather than drop the figure, Trump has boosted it to 250,000. And other candidates have followed his lead with exaggerated figures, just not quite as high. Ben Carson claimed 200,000 from the Middle East “region” and 100,000 from Syria;  Fiorina said 100,000 from Syria.

In a tweet, Trump even evoked the image of a flood of Syrian refugees “now pouring into” the United States:

    Refugees from Syria are now pouring into our great country. Who knows who they are – some could be ISIS. Is our president insane?

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 17, 2015

(We initially thought Sen. Rand Paul might qualify for scrutiny as well, since he told reporters in Florida on Nov. 14 that “I would not admit 200,000 people from Syria.” But a check of the audio found that he was responding to a question from an uninformed reporter who flatly stated that the administration had agreed to admit 200,000 from Syria.)

In fact, the planned number of Syrian refugees thus far is 10,000. How can people running for president — even if they are all political novices — continue to get this so wrong?

The Facts

As we have explained before, the only thing close to a 200,000 figure is an announcement in September by Secretary of State John Kerry that the United States was prepared to boost the number of total refugees accepted from around the world in fiscal 2016, from 70,000 to 85,000. Then, in 2017, Kerry said that 100,000 would be accepted.

That adds up to 185,000 over two years. But this would be the total number of refugees, not the number of refugees from Syria.

By law, the president every fiscal year sets the maximum number of refugees the United States can accept in a year. (Note to Carson: This is not done by executive order; it is a legal requirement.) Over the past decade, the annual limit has been between 70,000 and 80,000, according to the Congressional Research Service. (In fiscal 2013, about 30 percent came from the Middle East, mostly from Iraq.) So, 100,000 from around the world in 2017 would be a big jump, assuming Obama goes through with the pledge to authorize that level. But nothing is set in stone.

As for Syria, Obama has only directed the United States to accept at least 10,000 Syrian refugees in the next year. That’s certainly an increase — fewer than 2,200 Syrians have been admitted to the United States since the uprising began in March 2011, according to State Department officials — but it’s hardly the flood that Trump worries about. (Indeed, it’s only a drop in the bucket of some 4 million Syrian refugees.) In theory, if Obama lifted the ceiling to 100,000 in 2017 and then filled the gap entirely with Syrians, that would be 25,000 more–but that’s still far less then 100,000.

Note: Some readers have pointed to this tweet by Obama as evidence for the “100,000” figure. Note the phrase “and other refugees.” We certainly hope the candidates are not basing their assertions on a tweet.

    We're also increasing the number of Syrian and other refugees we admit to the U.S. to 100,000 per year for the next two years.

    — President Obama (@POTUS) September 28, 2015

Of those admitted to the United States from Syria so far, about half have been children and a quarter are adults over  60. There are slightly more men than women, but only 2 percent of those admitted are single males of combat age, officials said.

Representatives for Trump, Carson and Fiorina did not respond to queries.


 
During WW2, were nationals from Axis countries in North America supposed to register before the attack on Pearl Harbor? Just curious. Aside from the detainment camps of Japanese Americans during that war.

Canadian Press

Trump's presidential rivals decry his call for registering US Muslims; 'abhorrent,' says Bush
The Canadian Press
By Julie Pace And Jill Colvin, The Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Republican presidential rivals rushed Friday to condemn Donald Trump's support for a government database to track Muslims in the United States, drawing a sharp distinction with the Republican front-runner on a proposal also deemed unconstitutional by legal experts.

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush called the prospect of a registry "abhorrent." Florida Sen. Marco Rubio said the idea was "unnecessary" and not something Americans would support. And Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, who has largely avoided criticizing Trump throughout the 2016 campaign, said, "I'm not a fan of government registries of American citizens."

"The First Amendment protects religious liberty, and I've spent the past several decades defending the religious liberty of every American," Cruz told reporters in Sioux City, Iowa.

(...SNIPPED)
 
S.M.A. said:
The Syrian refugee issue also reaches the US presidential candidates' debates.

Apparently the official figure is 10,000, though there is apparent confusion...

Washington Post

Given that Obama hasn't told anyone, including the governors, what the plan is, or how it's going to be carried out, confusion is understandable.
 
S.M.A. said:
During WW2, were nationals from Axis countries in North America supposed to register before the attack on Pearl Harbor? Just curious. Aside from the detainment camps of Japanese Americans during that war.

Canadian Press

Now we just have to wait for all the "Talking Heads" from the CAIR, Black Panthers, NAN, NAACP, etc. and the biggest one of all, Al Sharpton to hit the airwaves.  This ridiculous statement by Trump is another of his ploys to get people talking, and not necessarily in a good way.
 
Explaining the how and why of Donald Trump. I suspect that in the beginning, running for President was some sort of self promotion ploy by Donald Trump, but as his words resonated with the voting public and he kept rising in the polls, the race took on a life of its own. Donald is now riding a tiger, and there is no next stop to get off....

This is also an interesting look at how the media echo chamber has evolved, and also goes some way to explaining why the media seems so clueless in covering Trump (as well as people like Dr Carson and Carly Fiorina).

http://pressthink.org/2015/11/i-will-try-to-explain-why-the-trump-candidacy-has-been-so-confounding-to-our-political-press/

So I will try to explain why the Trump candidacy has been so confounding to our political press.
Nov. 29

Those “laws of political gravity?” They were never really laws.

From a week ago on Twitter:


Not quite, Ben.

I was not a fan of the way the political press used its gatekeeping powers when they were more robust. I felt that political journalism had lost its way. Still do. But I never called for, or looked forward to a system in which journalists and journalism ceased to matter. A public service press is one way we can hold power to account. It helps prevent lying from being raised to a universal principle in politics. That is important work. We need to figure out how it can continue.

Now to Ben Smith’s point — media gatekeepers don’t have that kind of muscle any more — add these observations:

Chris Cillizza of the Washington Post:


There was almost always a line that wasn’t crossed in years past, a sort of even-partisans-can-agree-on-this standard. Now, in large part because of Donald Trump’s candidacy, that line has been smudged out of existence. Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s famous quote that “you are entitled to your own opinion … but you are not entitled to your own facts” is no longer operative in this campaign.

Howard Kurtz, Fox News:


The media refs are really savaging him after a couple of misstatements and missteps, even as they struggle to understand why he pays no penalty when they blow the whistle. What they don’t quite grasp is that their attacks only make him stronger. This is not to let him off the hook for mistakes, just to recognize that Trump has completely rewritten the rule book, infuriating those who thought they enforced the rules.

Matt Taibbi, Rolling Stone:


Until recently, the narrative of stories like this has been predictable. If a candidate said something nuts, or seemingly not true, an army of humorless journalists quickly dug up all the facts, and the candidate ultimately was either vindicated, apologized, or suffered terrible agonies… That dynamic has broken down this election season. Politicians are quickly learning that they can say just about anything and get away with it. Along with vindication, apology and suffering, there now exists a fourth way forward for the politician spewing whoppers: Blame the backlash on media bias and walk away a hero.

NBC reporter Katy Tur (Via Greg Sargent.)


I spoke to a lot of his supporters who are waiting to come into this rally. And I asked them what they think of Donald Trump and whether or not they’re bothered by his inaccurate statements and whether they think they matter. And not a single one of them said that they thought it mattered. They said they like him because they think he’s going to be a strong leader, and they think he’s going to bring the change to Washington that they want. In fact, they blame the liberal media, as they say, on perpetrating lies against Donald Trump. They repeatedly asked, why don’t you ask this about Hillary Clinton, why don’t you ask this about President Obama? So there’s definitely a party line feeling among his supporters, that it is us-versus-them. And unfortunately, the media is very much the ‘them’ in this situation.

How should we interpret all this? Let me try my hand.

1. “The laws of political gravity” were never laws.

To an extent unrealized before this year, the role of the press in presidential campaigns relied on shared assumptions within the political class and election industry about what the rules were and what the penalty would be for violating them. This was the basis for familiar rituals like “the gaffe,” which in turn relied on assumptions about how a third party, the voters, would react once they found out about the violation. These assumptions were rarely tested because the risk seemed too high, and because risk-averse professionals — strategists, they’re called — were in charge of the campaigns.

The whole system rested on shared beliefs about what would happen if candidates went beyond the system as it stood cycle to cycle. Those beliefs have now collapsed because Trump “tested” and violated most of them— and he is still leading in the polls. (Rob Ford in Canada was there before Trump.) There has been a cascading effect as conventions that depended on one another give way. The political press is pretty stunned by these developments. It keeps asking: when will the “laws of political gravity” be restored? Or have they simply vanished?

“The question now is whether Candidate Trump is immune from the laws of political gravity or soon will be isolated and regarded as an object of scorn or curiosity rather than of presidential seriousness,” wrote the Washington Post’s Dan Balz back in July. (Other uses of that phrase here, here and here.) But what the press describes as “laws” were never really that. They were at best conventions among the political class, in which I include most Washington journalists— though they would not include themselves.

2. Isomorphism for the win!

“Institutional isomorphism,” a phrase only an academic could love, is the title of a famous paper in sociology (DiMaggio and Powell, 1983) that sought to explain why different institutions in the same field tend to resemble each other, even as they struggle to compete and to “win.” The authors observe that “organizations tend to model themselves after similar organizations that they perceive to be more legitimate or successful.” It’s not a coincidence. There are structural forces at work that appear again and again across vastly different industries and fields.

For example, if a firm is competing for talent it will want to offer the same kind of stage for talent to display itself. Meanwhile, the talent knows that if it cannot mesh well with competing firms it has no leverage over its current one. When Jeff Zeleny, a political reporter for ABC News, moved to CNN this year (to do the same thing he did at ABC) he did not have to assimilate a new view of politics or a different definition of the journalist’s role. Isomorphism had already taken care of that. No one thinks this the least bit remarkable.

Similarly, when in 2009 CNN created ‘State of the Union’ to compete with the likes of ‘Meet the Press’ and ‘Face the Nation,’ it simply copied those shows in almost every detail. Again, no one thinks that’s weird. It’s just what you do in TV news.


Highly structured organizational fields [presidential campaigns would qualify as one, but so would large news organizations] provide a context in which individual efforts to deal rationally with uncertainty and constraint often lead in the aggregate to homogeneity in structure, culture and output.

In other words, the more they try to compete at one level the more similar they become at all the others. (True for universities too.) But notice: Trump is not an institution. He is really his own campaign manager, spokesman and chief strategist, which means that the chief strategist of the Trump campaign — Trump — doesn’t care if he ever gets hired by another campaign. Poof! There goes one of the little structural forces that tend toward isomorphism. Multiply by 100 and you have pundits asking: have the laws of political gravity been repealed?

3. Weak sense of purpose.

DiMaggio and Powell note that isomorphism is especially likely in institutions with ambiguous or unclear goals. That describes the teams of reporters, editors and producers who create most of the campaign coverage we see.

In May of this year I attended a two-day conference in Chicago for journalists covering the 2016 campaign. Among the panelists were established stars like Chuck Todd of NBC and Mark Halperin of Bloomberg, along with the chairs and communications directors of the two major parties. In the audience were young journalists assigned to election coverage from news organizations around the country. One of the striking things about the event (for me) was the complete vacuum of discussion around the ultimate aims of campaign coverage. No one even thought to ask: what are we trying to accomplish here? What’s the goal of our coverage in 2016? Everyone already knew the answer: We’re here to cover the campaign! To find great stories that readers will love! To be savvy analysts of what’s likely to happen. There’s a circularity to these answers that doesn’t register among the people working inside the circle.

Why does this matter? First, because it leads to a homogeneity in coverage that isn’t chosen but automatic. Second, another way to ask about ultimate goals is to put the question in a more threatening form: what’s your agenda in covering the campaign? To that question the political journalists at NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, Fox News, PBS, NPR, New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Politico, Time magazine would all return the same non-answer. No agenda, just solid coverage. “We report, you decide.” (Fox News.) “The Only Side We Choose is Yours.” (CNN.)

In founding FNC, Roger Ailes understood the isomorphic factor and decided to ape the conventions of TV news, while shifting the product to appeal to an under-served market and thereby become a force in Republican politics. One of the conventions he aped is to keep silent on questions of purpose. Into that vacuum flow accusations of bias, which is fine with Ailes. (“I’ll tell you what your agenda is!”) That flow has now become a raging torrent, eroding trust, coarsening dialogue, re-inforcing bad habits like false balance, and acting as a wedge issue in the media sphere.

4.) Strong sense of purpose.

For a good contrast with punting on questions of purpose I offer you Univision and its lead anchor Jorge Ramos, who knows what he’s for and which public he represents.


“The Republican Party has been complaining lately about how some Latino journalists, including me, only ask them about immigration,” he said. “That is correct, but what Republicans don’t understand is that for us, the immigration issue is the most pressing symbolically and emotionally, and the stance a politician takes on this defines whether he is with us or against us.”

Ramos, who is one of the most trusted public figures among American Latinos, according to polls, has been an outspoken supporter of federal legislation that would pave a path to citizenship for those living in the country illegally.

He has pressed candidates from both parties on the issue. In the 2012 campaign, he hammered President Obama, who had promised but failed to deliver an immigration bill during his first term. More recently, he has criticized Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio, who as a senator from Florida helped write an immigration reform bill but dropped support for it after it drew conservative anger

“Both parties now view him with trepidation,” said the New York Times in January. The example of Ramos shows that knowing what you’re for doesn’t have to mean joining the team or taking a party line. It’s possible to maintain your independence, win trust with your audience, and gain a clear sense of purpose when you’re out on the campaign trail. But you have to break with the pack.

And as I have written before there is a difference — a crucial difference — between doing politics and doing journalism:


If your job is to make the case, win the negotiations, decide what the community should do, or maintain morale, that is one kind of work. If your job is to tell people what’s going on, and equip them to participate without illusions, that is a very different kind of work. To put it a little more sharply, power-seeking and truth-seeking are different behaviors, and this is what creates the distinction between politics and journalism. The work of the journalist cannot be done without a commitment to the act of reporting, which means gathering information, talking to people who know, trying to verify and clarify what actually happened and to portray the range of views as they emerge from events.

A primary commitment to reporting therefore distinguishes the work of the journalist. Declining to express a view does not. Refusing to vote does not. Pretending to be ideology-free or “objective” on everything does not. Getting attacked from both sides? Nope.

Of course, everyone can’t be Jorge Ramos or take up the Latinos-in-America cause. That works for Univision and its English-language brand, Fusion. What would work for the mainstream media, as it is still called in the U.S.? Well, I don’t know. I tried to answer that question in 2010, and I think there may be some value in the approach I described there.

Probably the best thing that the major news organizations could do at this point is differentiate: that is, go right at the isomorphism. Try different approaches to untangling the mobius strip of Trump coverage, in which he attacks the news media, dominates its coverage, withstands its “checking” powers, astonishes its pundits, and feeds off the furor that all this creates. One thing I know. Tossing around terms like “post-truth” and then moving briskly on to other news — such as you see here — is not the sign of a serious press.

After Matter: Notes, Reactions & Links

Disclosure: As reported by the Huffington Post, in 2016 my students and I will be collaborating with Fusion.net on different ways to do election journalism.

“It’s difficult for journalists to successfully call politicians on their incorrect or misleading claims in the absence of political opponents who are doing the same.” Political scientist David A. Hopkins responds to this post.

From Jonathan Stray, It’s not you: political journalism really is broken:


“Think for a minute what you could do about ____ that isn’t reading political news, then think if the political news you are reading helps you do that.”

Donald Trump May Not Be a Fascist, But He is Leading Us Merrily Down That Path by David Neiwert is a careful and detailed examination by a writer who knows what he’s talking about.

Ben Smith (now editor-in-chief of Buzzfeed, formerly a political reporter) responds:


Well, I’m not sure what I said in this post that is contingent on Trump doing well, Ben.

PressThink, four years ago:


The lines are usually attributed to Daniel Patrick Moynihan: “You’re entitled to your own opinions. You’re not entitled to your own facts.”

But suppose there arose on the political scene a practical caucus for the opposite view. We are entitled to our own facts, and we will show you what we think of your attempt to “check” us. If that happened, would the press know what to do?

“Here’s what those of us trapped inside the gilded New York-Washington brain cage miss: Trump may not be telling the truth, but he’s sure as hell telling their truth. This allows him to shatter most conventions of presidential campaigning, especially the notion that you have to run a positive campaign (or at least outsource your vitriol to surrogates) in order to win.” —Glenn Thrush, Politico. (My italics.) #
 
Donald Trump again:

Reuters via Yahoo News

Trump calls for targeting Islamic State fighters' families
Reuters – 20 hours ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump said on Wednesday his plan for combating Islamic State militants involves targeting not just the group's fighters but also their families.

"When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families," Trump said on Fox News. "They care about their lives, don't kid yourselves."

Trump said if he were president, he would try to avoid civilian deaths in going after the militant group, but he said the Obama administration was "fighting a very politically correct war."

Christoph Wilcke of Human Rights Watch said in response to Trump's comments that military forces legally can only target combatants. "The family members of fighters are civilians and cannot be targeted," he said in an email.

Trump's comments about the families of Islamic State fighters came a day after Lebanon released the ex-wife of the group's leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, and other jailed Islamists in an exchange

(...SNIPPED)

 
Wasnt that a British colonial policy as well when dealing with rebels ? Go after the families.Israel destroys the homes of terrorists.Same principle.
 
tomahawk6 said:
Wasnt that a British colonial policy as well when dealing with rebels ? Go after the families.Israel destroys the homes of terrorists.Same principle.

Apparently, Israel has the only policy that appears to be functioning. Now that's a harsh truth.
 
More Trump sound bytes:

CNN

Trump: Ban all Muslim travel to U.S.

By Jeremy Diamond, CNN

Updated 8:58 PM ET, Mon December 7, 2015 | Video Source: CNN

(CNN)Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump called Monday for barring all Muslims from entering the United States.

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on," a campaign press release said.

Trump, who has previously called for surveillance against mosques and said he was open to establishing a database for all Muslims living in the U.S., made his latest controversial call in a news release. His message comes in the wake of a deadly mass shooting in San Bernardino, California, by suspected ISIS sympathizers and the day after President Barack Obama asked the country not to "turn against one another" out of fear.

(...SNIPPED)
 
How is he going to figure out who is Muslim ???

Oh! Silly me, he is going to have them sow and wear a yellow moon Crescent symbol on their breast pocket, obviously.

The worse thing here is that such speech panders to a small but vocal and growing segment of the American population, some times referred to as Dominionists and Reconstructionists, who are as radical in their interpretation of the bible as the "radical" Islamists. They seek (and see it as their mission in life) to take control in Washington  and install there a Christian theocracy that would live and govern by the Ten Commandments and the rules of the Old testament.

If you don't believe me, just google "American Taliban".

Typical of their position would be statements like the following, from one Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, an organization that intimidates abortion providers in the US ("intimidate" in this context often means to threaten them with death, and actually attempt to carry out these murders, forcing the personnel from these clinics to live their life with constant body guards or police protection):

"Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism. Our goal must be simple. We must have a Christian nation built on God's law, on the Ten Commandments. No Apologies."

Ref: http://adultthought.ucsd.edu/Culture_War/The_American_Taliban.html

I don't believe these people will ever achieve power in the US, and if they ever did, a "Christian nation based on the Ten Commandments" is so contrary to the secular Constitution of the United States that it would degenerate into another civil war. But it is unacceptable in my view for anyone who pretends to the presidency of the United States to pander in any way to such a view of the nation. 
 
Pandering to potential voters is ALL these people do. The eliminationist rhetoric of the Left is equally offensive to many people as the sort of stuff Trump puts out, for the same reasons and with the same results.

And of course we have similar examples here in Canada, and the NAtional Socialist parites in Europe are on the rise, using much the same rhetoric against the "migrants" to whip up voter fervor.

So this is neither unusual or unexpected, and there should be no expectation that this will change anytime soon.
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
How is he going to figure out who is Muslim ???

Oh! Silly me, he is going to have them sow and wear a yellow moon Crescent symbol on their breast pocket, obviously.

The worse thing here is that such speech panders to a small but vocal and growing segment of the American population, some times referred to as Dominionists and Reconstructionists, who are as radical in their interpretation of the bible as the "radical" Islamists. They seek (and see it as their mission in life) to take control in Washington  and install there a Christian theocracy that would live and govern by the Ten Commandments and the rules of the Old testament.

If you don't believe me, just google "American Taliban".

Typical of their position would be statements like the following, from one Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, an organization that intimidates abortion providers in the US ("intimidate" in this context often means to threaten them with death, and actually attempt to carry out these murders, forcing the personnel from these clinics to live their life with constant body guards or police protection):

"Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism. Our goal must be simple. We must have a Christian nation built on God's law, on the Ten Commandments. No Apologies."

Ref: http://adultthought.ucsd.edu/Culture_War/The_American_Taliban.html

I don't believe these people will ever achieve power in the US, and if they ever did, a "Christian nation based on the Ten Commandments" is so contrary to the secular Constitution of the United States that it would degenerate into another civil war. But it is unacceptable in my view for anyone who pretends to the presidency of the United States to pander in any way to such a view of the nation.

That was a great post OGBD. There were two significant cultural threads in the colonies that would become the USA 1) The Enlightenment, as typified by Franklin and Jefferson, i.e. a rationalist, deist, unorthodox and quite agnostic religious viewpoint; and 2) The ultra rigid Calvinist puritanism of the original New England settlers, exiled from England because of their religious extremism.
I find it infuriating when extreme rightwing American politicians and commentators invoke the "Founding Fathers" in support of their views. They evoke Franklin, Jefferson et al, when they are actually speaking with the voice of those "Pilgrim Fathers", the original American Taliban.
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
The worse thing here is that such speech panders to a small but vocal and growing segment of the American population, some times referred to as Dominionists and Reconstructionists, who are as radical in their interpretation of the bible as the "radical" Islamists.

What helps people like this to gain momentum and support is the ignorance of others:

Enjoy:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/bible-quran-disguise-dutch-pranksters-youtube-1.3354446
 
More on Trump's MO. I'm surprised journalists haven't caught on to this earlier, given Trum's entire working career has been based on negotiating real estate deals, but then again, how doies that fit into the "narrative"?:

http://www.redstate.com/2015/12/07/this-is-a-brilliant-move-by-donald-trump/

This is a Brilliant Move by Donald Trump
By: Erick Erickson (Diary)  |  December 7th, 2015 at 06:43 PM  |  115

Donald Trump just trumped all the Republican candidates for President.

The day after the mom jeans wearing squat to pee President came out to assure us that tolerance, gun control, and climate change would save us from ISIS, Donald Trump demanded we bar any muslims from entering this country and bar any American citizen who is muslim from re-entering the United States.

Set aside the merits of what amounts to at least, in part, an unconstitutional position.

This is actually brilliant politics for the here and now. Immediately, every other Republican candidate except Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) rushed out to attack Donald Trump. He’s unhinged, hateful, etc. And the responses all amounted to “we must let muslims enter our country,” which sounds a whole lot like “we must allow all Mexicans in our country,” which everyone knows is blatantly untrue on both counts.

We do not have to do it, but the other candidates, unable to nuance their spittle, went all in with “no religious tests” and “yes we must do this because it is who we are.”

So, to put it another way, the day after the President failed to reassure a scared public following the second worst terrorist attack since 9/11 on domestic soil, Donald Trump not only got himself to the right of all the other candidates, but also got every single one of them save for Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) to align themselves with Barack Obama.

Hate Donald Trump all you want, be offended by his proposal all you want, but it is really brilliant politics for Trump right now in the Republican primary and the reactions from the other candidates prove it. All the people attacking Trump on his immigration proposals now attacking him on this have done themselves no favors within the primary process.

Have none of these people read Art of the Deal? This is an opening, bombastic salvo to set the terms of negotiations and the other candidates except Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) just decided to negotiation in Barack Obama’s position. And it comes at a time some polls are suggesting Trump is starting to fade in places like Iowa.

Again, ignore the merits and constitutionality — the politics of this work to his advantage.
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
How is he going to figure out who is Muslim ???

Oh! Silly me, he is going to have them sow and wear a yellow moon Crescent symbol on their breast pocket, obviously.

The worse thing here is that such speech panders to a small but vocal and growing segment of the American population, some times referred to as Dominionists and Reconstructionists, who are as radical in their interpretation of the bible as the "radical" Islamists. They seek (and see it as their mission in life) to take control in Washington  and install there a Christian theocracy that would live and govern by the Ten Commandments and the rules of the Old testament.

If you don't believe me, just google "American Taliban".

Typical of their position would be statements like the following, from one Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, an organization that intimidates abortion providers in the US ("intimidate" in this context often means to threaten them with death, and actually attempt to carry out these murders, forcing the personnel from these clinics to live their life with constant body guards or police protection):

"Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism. Our goal must be simple. We must have a Christian nation built on God's law, on the Ten Commandments. No Apologies."

Ref: http://adultthought.ucsd.edu/Culture_War/The_American_Taliban.html

I don't believe these people will ever achieve power in the US, and if they ever did, a "Christian nation based on the Ten Commandments" is so contrary to the secular Constitution of the United States that it would degenerate into another civil war. But it is unacceptable in my view for anyone who pretends to the presidency of the United States to pander in any way to such a view of the nation.
Sounds like some firm measures are in order ....  >:D
 
The backlash in Vancouver over Trump's not so PC comments:

CBC

Donald Trump's anti-Muslim stance triggers Vancouver tower backlash
Republican presidential candidate called for a "total and complete shutdown of Muslims" entering the U.S.

e growing to remove Donald Trump's name from a Vancouver tower following the Republican presidential candidate's call for a "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States."

After Trump made the remarks on Monday, former Vancouver city planner Brent Toderian tweeted that the developers building the Trump Tower in Vancouver should remove his name from the building.

"I seriously suggest that Vancouverites call on @TrumpVancouver to remove his name," Toderian said on Twitter.

That call was then echoed by Vancouver city councillor Kerry Jang on Tuesday, who says the city can't do anything to stop the building from bearing Trump's name, but he has written to the developer asking them to part ways with Trump.

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Interesting premise I heard last night in regards to Trump's latest episode.

Could Trump have launched his latest doozie in deliberate effort to tank his run, since nothing else he has done to this point has resulted in a negative outcome?

Did Trump get into the race as a lark to stir the pot and drum up publicity, with no real thought that this could possibly succeed in gaining the nomination, let alone the White House? Only to find that the electorate (the GOP side of the ledger at least) are in a mood to put anyone other than the mainstream Washington insiders in power? And now that there is a more than fleeting chance that he could well win the nomination is he doing what ever he can to try and tank his campaign?

The cynic in me says that he just isn't that smart.
 
I think there's no way he wouldn't want the job.  He has an insatiable appetite for an ego.  The beast needs lots of feeding and maintenance.
 
jollyjacktar said:
I think there's no way he wouldn't want the job.  He has an insatiable appetite for an ego.  The beast needs lots of feeding and maintenance.

Unlikely, but he could also say, "I walked away from a sure shot at becoming the most powerful man in the world because it didn't have enough challenges for ME!"
 
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