C3 to the Regs

[Mansell]

Greetings,

I have heard some rumblings that all Reserve C3 105s are going to the Regular Force in exchange for the LG1.
Can anyone confirm or deny this? Any thoughts on this whole process? From what I heard the LG1 isn‘t the most... cooperative pieces of Kit and I love the C3 so I am hoping this is all a bad dream.

Lemme know!

 

[scotty884]

The only thing I‘ve heard was that A Bty is losing 109‘s in exchage for the wolves (81mm mortar inside a bison). But A bty just completed an ex with the c-3 so anything is possible. Either way the 109‘s are soon gonna be put in war storage......

 

[elscotto937]

There are C3s comming to the Regts, where they are comming from I do not know. But it will most probably not be an exchange of LG1 for C3. The M109s are leaving and we must replace them with something... From the sharp end the C3 and LG1 are remarkably similar systems....And a few of the bugs of the LG1 have been worked out.

 

[1feral1]

The C3 is simply an upgunned M2A2, and is a wonderful gun. As we know the M2A2 (C1) has a terrific track record with well over 60 yrs of service in peacetime and war.

Why the CF never adopted it force widw, we‘ll never know.

We (Australians) use the L119 105mm Hamel, and its a maintenance nightmare, and not as robust as the old M2A2. The M2A2 is still in use in limited service in some regiments of the RAA.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[elscotto937]

Wes, did you have a chance to work on the LG1 before you went south? And I most certainly agree with you on the work horse 105C2, and the improvements in developing the C3 are nice and necessary. LG1s do make a nice tactical gun line, when not engaged.

 

[RCA]

Not all C1 were converted to C3 so I am not sure how many C3 are out there. My guess is most are at reserve units. So if the RCHA are getting them to replace the M109 (appox 2 bty/3 regt x 6/bty = 36 guns)the question to ask where are they coming from. But then again all this is stricly rumour. However one answer might be the mortors. 116 Bty recently got 81mm but still hold their C3s.

A Bty‘s C3 were just borrowed for the ex from 26 Fd. It probably had to do with a wack load of 105 ammo left at the end of the fiscal yr rather then a trial.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

15th field used to have 6 C2 and then was scaled back to 4 C3‘s I think they put some C2‘s in storage, but could be wrong. There was a experimental 105mm C3 mouted on a truck that I saw on the web recently.

I shudder to think that our forces are replacing 155mm howizters with 81mm mortars. A SP 120mm Breech loaded mortar would be closest replacement in order to keep the same amount of firepower.

 

[elscotto937]

In fact, the Artillery School was still deploying C1/C2s to the field as late as 2002... I do not know if that continues at that unit, but I suspect probably not.
RCA how long did it take for the Militia units to get thier C3s after the surrended there old 105s. I have heard that units were left without guns for as long as a year.

 

[RCA]

As far as I know, all the C1 are gone and probably at Longe Pointe. If memory serves me it took a 1 to 1 1/2 yr to get the C3s but I don‘t remember being without. Some units probaly did better then others, but being without for a year wouldn‘t be a strtech

 

[1feral1]

No, never even seen a LG1, but in 2000, had a great long look at a C3, and noted the conversion was done in the Netherlands, at least thats what the data plate said.

Sure is a nice gun, and I am sure the RAA Gunnies here would love to give it a go.

As for our Hamels, it looks like we are trading them for the US M198(T)155‘s sometime in the future as most Fd Arty will become Mdm Arty. The Hamels will go to maybe 1 or 2 Regts, some are rumoured to be a SP, the South African 155 SP, cant remember the name of it, but would suit us fine I reckon.

I seen the M109 out here on trials back in the late 90‘s. It was freaky cuz of the NATO cam ptrn and all. I first thought I was seeing things, as the NATO cam sticks out like dogs balls in this terrain.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[elscotto937]

Is that wheeled South african 155mm SP, that Canada was looking at a while back.

 

[Firepower]

In fact, the Artillery School was still deploying C1/C2s to the field as late as 2002... I do not know if that continues at that unit, but I suspect probably not.
RCA how long did it take for the Militia units to get thier C3s after the surrended there old 105s. I have heard that units were left without guns for as long as a year.

As late as 2002? They are still using them now! They are brutally reliable, how often do you hear about a hydralic hose breaking own them now? . W Bty is often under-manned, the smaller gun is easier to work with. I've witnessed times when the plate on the LG1 froze into the ground an when removed, actually broke off the gun. Gagetown has some pretty harsh terrain, I don't know how the LG1 performed farther west but it didn't seem to hold up to well here.


As for where the C3s for the Regs might be coming from, I've heard rumors of some Reserve artillery units being converted to mortar, I dunno, it might just be a bad joke.

 

[elscotto937]

I agree the LG1 is not a robust gun, in fact the very first day we took them to the field we broke them... it was a defect in the gun. Then there were the mods that were done to the LG1 which were supposed to make it easier to man handle... except the low profile and enhanced breach, I still favour the old C2s.

 

[Mortar guy]

As for numbers of the C3, I had read that 96 C1s were converted to the C3 standard. So if the C3 goes to the regs, and you factor in training, log and op stocks, that doesn't leave alot for the reserves (about 2-3 guns per regt). I have also read in Jane's that the arty is considering mounting the C3 on the back of a truck (probably the MLVW replacement - the MSVS) similar to the MOBAT. I think this is a great idea.

Alex

 

[opop01]

From what I have been told and hearing...the C3 is going to become the main gun for the Artillery both reg and reserve.  I have heard of the truck mounted C3 doing well in tests and that the gunners in Gagetown enjoyed this.  The M109 is starting to age and it is expensive to maintain...for both shooting and just general repairs.  The truck mounted C3 would still give us the mobility that the M109 gave us, and because of the truck mounting would give a full 6400mils for bearing.  Very similar to the 25lb gun.

 

[RCA]

Newest Rumour - The Atry will converting some more existing C1/C2 to C3s. M109 will be gone, so all they will have toi buy now is stocks of 105 ammo. Don't know aboot the 6400 travrerse but 800-1000 L/R would still work. No more take post to lay after bedding in the trails wouldn't be a bad thing either.

 

[Mortar guy]

On the CASR DND 101 site they mention that when the first batch of 96 C1s was converted to C3s, the army also had an option to convert another 89. I have to say it would be sweet if we had 185 C3s with some on trucks and some towed. Enough guns for everyone!  :mg:

Here's the link to the CASR C3 section http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-artyc3.htm

Alex

 

[sjm]

With the manufacturer of the C3 out of business there are no spare parts for the C3 discounting the old C2 parts that remain on the guns (those are the parts that don't fail).  If a recoil mech is BLRd or a barrel cracks or wears prematurely (as they appear to be doing) the gun is gone.  The further 89 or so guns that were an option are no longer an option.

Most likely the C3s will be used until they exist in such small numbers that they can no longer be deployed even in an organization as small as ours.

There are still C2s in storage, anyone want to suggest where these can be used best?

C3s to the HAs and CTC and possibly return the C2s to the militia?

 

[1feral1]

Wes, did you have a chance to work on the LG1 before you went south? And I most certainly agree with you on the work horse 105C2, and the improvements in developing the C3 are nice and necessary. LG1s do make a nice tactical gun line, when not engaged.

Sorry for the over a year in replying, but I must have missed this one. No I never had seen the LG1, and back in 97 I saw the C3 for the first time at 10 Fd regt, in Regina.

Cheers,

Wes