• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

The Charter (including the notwithstanding clause) do not apply here but the constitution does.

s 91 provides



s 92 provides



My reading is that if a pipeline is inside a province and doesn't extend outside of it then the province controls but if the pipeline connects several provinces or simply transits a province from one to another through a third then the Feds are in charge. The responsible agency is the Canada Energy Regulator.

This is far from my area of expertise, but I think that a Federal government, with the political will, could make it happen.

🍻
Right- but S.92 speaks of exclusive jurisdiction. So the province gets exclusive jurisdiction over ‘local works and undertakings’. However, there’s also no S.91 exclusive federal jurisdiction for interprovincial works not specifically described; so does this mean both jurisdictions have some room to claim scope to legislate?

Certainly the regulation of an interprovincial pipeline would seem to fall to the CER. However, I could see provinces raising challenges based on, say, S.92(13) jurisdiction over property, or over the provincial authority that has been recognized over environmental concerns… Enough to keep things very bogged down, anyway.

Political will is the key phrase. If Quebec decides to block a pipeline, they should lose transfer payments equal to the expected revenue each year until they approve. A James/Hudson Bay loading station is also feasible and local first nations should be given the training needed and first crack at jobs to operate it.

Equalization payments are provided for in S.36 of the Constitution Act. There’s no provision there for withholding payments based on a province not wishing to be part of an infrastructure project. Any provincial blockage of interprovincial infrastructure would no doubt come in the form of legislating and litigating; that makes it a matter for the courts to sort out.

Let’s not forget that in the past few years, SCC shot down federal overreach into provincial jurisdiction in the Impact Assessment Act reference case. It’s by no means a clean analogue. However, it does show that the SCC won’t shy away from upholding provincial jurisdiction.

All in all, there’s enough to keep a federally imposed pipeline jammed up in court for a long time. Otherwise a Conservative government would probably have already legislated.

Realistically, a path forward on a pipeline to the east is going to depend on consensus building in order to happen in a relevant time span.
 
but S.92 speaks of exclusive jurisdiction. So the province gets exclusive jurisdiction over ‘local works and undertakings’
The key there is "local" and the fact that the "exclusive jurisdiction" does not apply when the work is

  • 10.
    Local Works and Undertakings other than such as are of the following Classes:
    • (a)
      Lines of Steam or other Ships, Railways, Canals, Telegraphs, and other Works and Undertakings connecting the Province with any other or others of the Provinces, or extending beyond the Limits of the Province:
    • (b)
      Lines of Steam Ships between the Province and any British or Foreign Country:
    • (c)
      Such Works as, although wholly situate within the Province, are before or after their Execution declared by the Parliament of Canada to be for the general Advantage of Canada or for the Advantage of Two or more of the Provinces.

🍻
 
Even less of a scholar than you guys but I think Section 92A(3), coupled with Parliament's 'peace, order and good government' authority, come into play. In my view, a province's exclusive jurisdiction of resources relates to to production and export, not 'pass through'.

  • (3) Nothing in subsection (2) derogates from the authority of Parliament to enact laws in relation to the matters referred to in that subsection and, where such a law of Parliament and a law of a province conflict, the law of Parliament prevails to the extent of the conflict.
 
I think this is a good place to put this.

Bermuda Tim coming in HOT! I'm very happy with the Premier we got out here. Sorry, rest of Canada.


I'm happy he's ours as well.

A couple of bad moves on the auditor general and communication but he walked them back.

All in all I wonder if Tim's future is at the federal level, and would it be CPC or LPC ?
 
That's a
I'm happy he's ours as well.

A couple of bad moves on the auditor general and communication but he walked them back.

All in all I wonder if Tim's future is at the federal level, and would it be CPC or LPC ?
Good question. He runs his government and the economy like a fiscal conservative, but his stance on social policies are straight up liberal. He's a true red-torie or possibly even a blue-grit.
 
The key there is "local" and the fact that the "exclusive jurisdiction" does not apply when the work is



🍻
Yup, we’re saying the same thing. I wasn’t suggesting a pipeline is local by any means. I’m agreeing that S.92 exclusive provincial jurisdiction over works and undertakings does not apply. However there’s also not an exclusive federal jurisdiction enumerated either; I.e., while regulation is obviously going to be a federal matter, there doesn’t seem to be a S.91 enumerated federal power that would let them legislate roughshod over the provinces on this. If neither side has exclu*sive* power, potentially neither side is exclu*ded*, in the sense that both probably have a seat they can righteously claim at the table. The original constitution explicitly included certain forms of interprovincial works as federal; pipelines have never been added, including in 1982 when the best opportunity to do so arose.

Anyway, I’m just suggesting it’s a murky enough picture to lead to years of litigation.
 
I'm curious. Could a new Conservative government not use the Notwithstanding Clause, citing national security or national interest, to push the pipeline through Quebec? Or short circuit them altogether and make a deal with the First Nations and run it through central Quebec on native land?

They could. But do they want to provoke yet another referendum? I prefer @Good2Golf 's solution.
 
That's a

Good question. He runs his government and the economy like a fiscal conservative, but his stance on social policies are straight up liberal. He's a true red-torie or possibly even a blue-grit.
Which is the political alignment of like 85% of Canadians lol
 
Why bother, seriously? Just finish Northern Gateway, and build a Canadian oil line following TC’s gas line down to Ontario and on up to Churchill, so that Ontario to BC can buy, refine and use AB’s WCS, and let Quebec keep shipping in Saudi oil. If Quebec’s can sleep soundly at night knowing their cars are consuming MBS’s and family’s oil, so be it. I can sleep just as soundly getting my diesel from the Sarina or Nanticoke refineries being fed through an all-Canadian routed AB-ON pipeline. 👍🏼

Northern Gateway is one option. There may be another nearer term option that could be pursued as well.


A long-shelved proposal to build a northern branch off the Trans Mountain pipeline system to the northern British Columbia coast is attracting renewed interest as the Canadian oilpatch and federal and provincial governments grapple with a response to new trade headwinds with the United States.

The Trans Mountain pipeline expansion (TMX) may have sufficient capacity to support a so-called TMX Northern Leg, which would involve constructing a new lateral pipeline branch off the mainline near Valemount, B.C., to carry crude to an export terminal in Kitimat, according to sources familiar with the federally owned pipeline system
 
Why bother, seriously? Just finish Northern Gateway, and build a Canadian oil line following TC’s gas line down to Ontario and on up to Churchill, so that Ontario to BC can buy, refine and use AB’s WCS, and let Quebec keep shipping in Saudi oil. If Quebec’s can sleep soundly at night knowing their cars are consuming MBS’s and family’s oil, so be it. I can sleep just as soundly getting my diesel from the Sarina or Nanticoke refineries being fed through an all-Canadian routed AB-ON pipeline. 👍🏼
I question the usability of Churchill. The harbour isn't actually that big and it's frozen for a large part of the year. A lot of modern oil tankers exceed the Panamax size of the harbour berths. Don't get me wrong, I'd love if my province got some sweet, sweet oil royalties but it'd be a part time export operation at best, without massive ice breaking investment. That said, if the icebreakers need to be there anyways, may as well park some submarines there too.
 
I question the usability of Churchill. The harbour isn't actually that big and it's frozen for a large part of the year. A lot of modern oil tankers exceed the Panamax size of the harbour berths. Don't get me wrong, I'd love if my province got some sweet, sweet oil royalties but it'd be a part time export operation at best, without massive ice breaking investment. That said, if the icebreakers need to be there anyways, may as well park some submarines there too.
Port Nelson may be a better spot but then there’d need to be full time dredging (which pretty much every port on a river estuary has). Shipping season is usually Aug to Nov but I would wager that is slowly getting longer.
But circumventing Northern Ontario east would be a massive game changer.
 
Port Nelson may be a better spot but then there’d need to be full time dredging (which pretty much every port on a river estuary has). Shipping season is usually Aug to Nov but I would wager that is slowly getting longer.
But circumventing Northern Ontario east would be a massive game changer.
Funny you mention that.


In my mind, Port Nelson would be a better LNG terminal, a pipeline could be run along the existing road to Gillam>Sundance and along a new road to Port Nelson, which is only about 70 miles further NE. From the Hudson Bay it's only about 3500 nautical miles to the Port of Hamburg, which I'm sure would be more than happy to take our LNG.

Churchill could be used for heavier goods like grain and Manitoba's new potash reserves (millions of tons in Westman, being developed as we speak, super exciting) as they make more sense for rail traffic on the existing railroad. Part of the royalties on the potash should be directed to the upgrading of the railway to southern standards and the construction of a TC Canadian pipeline spur North from Winnipeg. With some vision, which I believe Wab actually has, we could become an important little province pretty quick.

 
I think this is a good place to put this.

Bermuda Tim coming in HOT! I'm very happy with the Premier we got out here. Sorry, rest of Canada.


That's for self serving political purposes only. If he was really serious about trying to change the Bloc's leader's position, he would have drafted and sent the letter in French. You don't get people to change their minds by disrespecting them, twice in this case: by not using Blanchet's language, and by calling Blanchet small minded.


BTW, I would really like to know what "foreign nations" we are "so dependent" on, particularly where energy is concerned.
 
Funny you mention that.


In my mind, Port Nelson would be a better LNG terminal, a pipeline could be run along the existing road to Gillam>Sundance and along a new road to Port Nelson, which is only about 70 miles further NE. From the Hudson Bay it's only about 3500 nautical miles to the Port of Hamburg, which I'm sure would be more than happy to take our LNG.

Churchill could be used for heavier goods like grain and Manitoba's new potash reserves (millions of tons in Westman, being developed as we speak, super exciting) as they make more sense for rail traffic on the existing railroad. Part of the royalties on the potash should be directed to the upgrading of the railway to southern standards and the construction of a TC Canadian pipeline spur North from Winnipeg. With some vision, which I believe Wab actually has, we could become an important little province pretty quick.

Although I’m not a fan of the NDP I am rather impressed with Wab at this point in time.
 
I question the usability of Churchill. The harbour isn't actually that big and it's frozen for a large part of the year. A lot of modern oil tankers exceed the Panamax size of the harbour berths. Don't get me wrong, I'd love if my province got some sweet, sweet oil royalties but it'd be a part time export operation at best,
I think all of us would BUT our governments continue to spend spend spend like soldiers on a 96 hour pass in Budapest.
 
Back
Top