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Canada security council seat

I agree with Thucydides. The UN has become useless and corrupt. A sinkhole of money, not wisely, nor well, spent.

Anyway, no matter the reason we lost, I'm going to hold Count Iggy 100% responsible. Maybe not because he deserves all the blame, but because he just doesn't know when to keep his pompous cakehole shut. So just for shiggles and my immense dislike for him. ;D
 
Bad: “Softy” Lloyd supported Canada’s UN Security Council bid
http://unambig.com/bad-softy-lloyd-supported-canadas-un-security-council-bid/

I’m most uncomfortable with anything supported by Mr “Soft on power, soft in head” Axworthy...

Good:

    UPDATE: Canada Fails In Its Bid For UN Security Council Seat

Hardly a shocker when one thinks that we were up against two EU countries undoubtedly supported by all the members (did the UK support a fellow Commonwealth member? hah!) and with the rather significant lobbying of all those members, and EU representatives abroad, for them.

We hardly have comparable international clout. In fact we have very little. But our pundits, politicians, and large segments of the public simply do not have the realism, or the intellectual honesty, to realize that Canada has become, inevitably, a small player on the international scene in light of how the world has changed since the 1950s–perhaps the last time had serious and sustainted influence.

Instead of crying “humiliating” or things similar, which many will do, let’s just grow up and suck it up...

Mark
Ottawa
 
recceguy said:
I agree with Thucydides. The UN has become useless and corrupt. A sinkhole of money, not wisely, nor well, spent.

Anyway, no matter the reason we lost, I'm going to hold Count Iggy 100% responsible. Maybe not because he deserves all the blame, but because he just doesn't know when to keep his pompous cakehole shut. So just for shiggles and my immense dislike for him. ;D


If the UN didn't exist we would have to invent it ... come to think of it 'we' (Canada) did help invent it, twice.

The General Assembly, that rejected us for UNSC membership, and the General Secretariat (the staff) are, indeed, irredeemably corrupt but the GA provides a talking shop where everyone, even Chad and Niger, can have a voice equal to America and China. The Secretariat is, essentially, harmless - a huge 'make work' project for thousands and thousands of unqualified people who are 'friends of' someone or other.

The UNSC provides the only (currently) internationally acceptable authority for missions like Afghanistan. Even the USA recognizes that: Why else did George W Bush try so bloody hard to get the UNSC to sanction the Iraq fiasco mission?

The fact, and it is a fact, that the UNSC cannot manage the complex and dangerous missions it authorizes is neither here nor there - it's only important function is to provide a mandate. After it does no one with brains the gods gave to green peppers care what it says or does - unless it withdraws that mandate.

The really important, valuable and useful parts of the UN are the member agencies like ITU, WHO, IMO and so on that provide valuable, even essential service to the whole world in a, generally, fair, open and efficient way.

So: we need the UN but we can and should be very critical of its governance and very selective about how we participate in it. For a start we should withhold some, but a big some, of our contributions to the UN, proper (not to the member agencies) - let the EU and Arabs pay.
 
recceguy said:
Anyway, no matter the reason we lost, I'm going to hold Count Iggy 100% responsible. Maybe not because he deserves all the blame, but because he just doesn't know when to keep his pompous cakehole shut. So just for shiggles and my immense dislike for him. ;D
You have to have something to live for, right?  ;D

For me, time to move on once the MSM cycle is done on this one - FAR bigger fish to fry than this now.
 
The media and web sites are already full of Bob Rae, Paul Dewar and Stephen Lewis saying "this is a stinging repudiation of Canadian foreign policy." The Foreign Minister (Cannon) denies it. Cannon is wrong, Rae, Dewar and Lewis are right: much of the world, for a variety of reasons, did repudiate our foreign policy. That's their right, but, so long as we are convinced that our policies, towards America, towards China, towards Israel and, and, and ... are morally and politically right, then we should not give a tinker's dam what Austria, Belgium, Chad or Zimbabwe think. They can have their policies and they can repudiate ours all they want. We do as we wish and the devil take the hindmost and Portugal takes the UNSC seat.

Some officials saw this coming - and saw that it was too late to try to change Arab led Muslim minds (35+ votes) or Brazil plus a few votes (15 or so) or EU and EU candidate member's votes (20+ or so votes). The Arabs and Muslims have made their point. The guesstimate is that their opposition will harden Harper's views on Israel vs. the Arabs and, when it is considered in the light of the Arabs voting against us because we support Israel's right to exist, will make more (not most) Canadians lean towards his view.

My guess is that in the EU only Britain, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Netherlands and Sweden (six of 27 members) voted for us - breaking what France and Italy hoped was a block vote. I also suspect that Norway and Iceland also voted for us but that the rest of Europe, including Russia, voted for Portugal. I also think we got most of Asia's votes, maybe even Indonesia's.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
My guess is that in the EU only Britain, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Netherlands and Sweden (six of 27 members) voted for us - breaking what France and Italy hoped was a block vote. I also suspect that Norway and Iceland also voted for us but that the rest of Europe, including Russia, voted for Portugal. I also think we got most of Asia's votes, maybe even Indonesia's.

Thereby, if true continuing the two thousand year old tradition where the Free/Uncooperative Germans (Franks) continue to side with those Mediterranean tribes against their fellow Northerners (Angles, Saxons, Frisians, Jutes, Goths, Swedes, Swabians and Vandals - not to mention their later incarnations as Vikings and Rus.)  On one side an unruly mob that occasionally forms a confederacy for short term advantage and elects their kings until they are no longer of any use to them. On the other side an unruly mob convinced, no matter how often they get disappointed, that one day the messiah will come and take all their troubles away so that they can continue not working.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Ignatieff acted (spoke) childishly - he is more of a partisan pissant than Harper. In this case he embarrassed himself and his country. A good reminder that a closed mouth gathers no feet.

It hasn't even been a week and the "Liberal" Press have already forgotten this.  Blame Harper.  ::)
 
George Wallace said:
It hasn't even been a week and the "Liberal" Press have already forgotten this.  Blame Harper.  ::)

They may have, but I sure as hell haven't. And for those nations who we send aid to that have voted against us, I hope they like the taste of dirt.

Yeah, I'm angry.
 
I think the Globe and Mail's editorial cartoon says it all:

wededcar13co1a_939122cl-8.jpg

Brian Gable
The Globe and Mail

 
According to Postmedia News....
Canada's historic loss in its bid to win election Tuesday to the United Nations Security Council came despite written promises of support from 135 countries, Postmedia News has learned.

The total, which comes from senior government insiders, would have been more than enough to assure Canada's victory in the ballot.

Canada withdrew from a run-off against Portugal after twice running second to the diminutive European state ....
 
HavokFour said:
Yeah, I'm angry.

You are angry because Canada did not win a temporary, non-veto seat on a mostly ineffective council ?

To each their own i guess.
 
I don't think the anger is about a seat in the UN, but at the shenanigans of the Liberals, NDP and the MSM.
 
CDN Aviator: Quite.  Plus a seat, had we got it, that would have caused frequent and divisive Canadian political and pundocratic, also ethno/religious, uproar about Canada's position on all sorts of things about which we have little real interest and almost no influence.

Again, suck it up.  We are not a serious internatonal player and there is no objective reason why we should be.  Time we learned to live with, and handle, the truth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOYGbM3nK9k

Mark
Ottawa
 
Paul Heinbecker (see my earlier comments here) has been all over the media crowing "I told you so" - which, in fairness he did - and making two points, one good and one bad:

1. The voting in UN secret ballots is always problematical. Unnamed officials say we had 135+ 'promised' votes - enough for an easy first ballot 'win.' We got less than 120 on the first ballot and less than 80 on the second. Heinbecker is correct to remind us that promises from anyone, even allies, are, essentially, worthless.

2. Our foreign policy is "out of step," especially on Global Warming (a European cause célèbre), Africa and Israel. On a purely factual basis he is, of course, right; we are out of step with much of Europe, almost all the Muslim states and most of the 'third world' on all three issues. But the real point is: are we out of step with our good, moral, traditional Canadian values? Heinbecker appears to believe we are. I do not.

Climate change is a reality for which e.g. Kyoto is not the best or even a good answer. Our position is, roughly: "we will get on board when the big guys (America, China, India and Europe) decide what to do - until then our best option is to try to avoid adding to the problem while not taking precipitous but ultimately futile action that does nothing but send good money after bad." That appears to be good, solid, traditional Canadian pragmatism to me.

Africa is a HUGE problem that must, ultimately, rely upon either the UN deciding to exercise and authorize Responsibility to Protect (R2P) or the Africans, themselves, taking themselves in hand and sorting themselves out. Until then even charity is, largely, wasted. That, too, is traditional, morally sound, Canadian pragmatism, in my opinion.

Canada is very much on the "wrong side" of the Arab/Israel debate. Most of the world, the majority determines the "right side," is firmly in the Arab camp. So is DFAIT, as an institution, and it has been ever since people like Peyton Lyon convinces successive governments (Trudeau and Joe Clark) to shift away from Canada's traditional, even handed, fair treatment of both the Arab and Israeli positions and towards a biased, realpolitic, pro Arab position - towards which most of the world was moving. Lyon et al cloaked their bias as standing up for the "little guy" but, in reality, it was, mostly, good old fashioned Eurocentric anti-Semitism disguised as policy. That position, the "right side" position, was and is immoral and "out of step" with Canada's traditional values.

Heinbecker at al appear to believe that since most of the world is foolish and craven we should be the same in order to "be in step." I disagree.
 
UN Security Council: The world needs more Canada?
http://unambig.com/un-security-council-the-world-needs-more-canada/

Plus duelling "editorials" in the Globe.

Mark
Ottawa
 
This morning I provided a comment to the online CBC story. It garnered "Disagree with this Comment" votes at about 3:1.

That the majority of those who respond to CBC comments disagree with me, I find assuring; I'm still OK  :nod:
 
I'm inclined to agree with the comments disparaging the U.N.  In the immortal words of Humphrey Appleby: "The UN is the accepted forum for the expression of international hatred."
What good is an organization that, amongst other glaring omissions, denies a venue for the  voice of Taiwan's 23 million people?
 
I've got no problem with countries like Iran and their stooges or Zimbabwe, Sudan, North Korea, UAE or a whole lot of others not voting for Canada. Don't want their votes don't want to be associated with them in any way. The games they are playing I don't mind being the last kid picked. I will sleep just fine tonight knowing Canada does'nt have a seat on the SC.        PS  That goes for alot of European countries too
 
If Edward's assessment on where the votes went is reasonably accurate, and if the vote is a referendum on Canada's foreign policy, I'm satisfied that most of the UN members who matter supported us in the referendum.  I see no reason for Canada to bend its policies to suit the will of most of the remainder.  It would be like a person feeling unfulfilled if he didn't have the respect and admiration of Fisk and Chomsky.
 
There's also Fast Eddy Said:
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/006849.html
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/010092.html
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/008017.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
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