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CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

Altair

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That all said, the promise is fully vaccinated by September. Dany Fortin thinks it can be done, the procurement schedule, baring more delays, says it can be done, so to declare the vaccine program a failure in mid February is a bit premature.
 

Jarnhamar

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So...mea culpa if everyone is vaccinated by September then?
Honestly it isn't even registering with me. I trust this promise the same as I trust a promise in the army.

People might be vaccinated or they might not. If they're not then the PMO will be the last one to take the blame.

Seems to me like people are obsessing about it, possibly because the government keeps making these promises.

That story about PMO staffers talking about how to keep Covid19 information away from Canadians when it initially broke out probably contributes to the lack of trust a bit eh?


Senior political staffers from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s office and the office of another federal Liberal cabinet minister privately discussed how to withhold information from Canadians about the government’s response to the COVID-19 crisis last June, newly released emails show.
Sneaky
 

Altair

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Honestly it isn't even registering with me. I trust this promise the same as I trust a promise in the army.

People might be vaccinated or they might not. If they're not then the PMO will be the last one to take the blame.

Seems to me like people are obsessing about it, possibly because the government keeps making these promises.

That story about PMO staffers talking about how to keep Covid19 information away from Canadians when it initially broke out probably contributes to the lack of trust a bit eh?



Sneaky
Not saying you need to trust it.

Just wondering if you would give the gov any credit if they achieve it.

All I know is that if last year someone told me that the world could largely go back to normal in September I would take it and run.
 

RangerRay

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Even if the “September Promise” is kept, I will still view as a failure since the rest of the developed world (and others) will be vaccinated months before us (according to most reporting I have seen).

There needs to be an investigation into that dodgy CanSino deal. Why anyone in government thought that was a good idea is beyond me.
 

Fishbone Jones

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So...mea culpa if everyone is vaccinated by September then?
Absolutely, I'll wear it. If everyone that want to be vaccinated, is so, by Sept 30/21. I'll happily admit I miscalculated.

As to promises. I don't much pay attention to the little stuff that really only affect the daily administrative items. I'm talking about things like the promise he made in 2010 when he said, "No way, I will never confiscate guns from Canadians", or words to that effect. Then we come to today.
 
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PuckChaser

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Just wondering if you would give the gov any credit if they achieve it.
I mean, it's not like you're willing to admit there's massive failures in a G7 country being 30th in the world in putting vaccines in arms. September doesn't matter if we devastate our economy and social fabric so badly before then that we take years longer than any other country to recover. You just keep proving the Tories right when they said Canada was at the back of the line for vaccine procurement.

Ontario just went a full month with no vaccine deliveries. That's appalling. There's 80-100 people per day that aren't able to survive waiting until September.
 

Altair

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I mean, it's not like you're willing to admit there's massive failures in a G7 country being 30th in the world in putting vaccines in arms. September doesn't matter if we devastate our economy and social fabric so badly before then that we take years longer than any other country to recover. You just keep proving the Tories right when they said Canada was at the back of the line for vaccine procurement.

Ontario just went a full month with no vaccine deliveries. That's appalling. There's 80-100 people per day that aren't able to survive waiting until September.
Let me set the record straight, the current situation sucks. As a result of decades of allowing homegrown pharmaceutical manufacturing capability to wither and die we are now stuck hoping big pharma and other countries allow us to get the the vaccines we need.

but short of invading other countries and stealing their vaccines, I don't see how anyone could have done anything different.
 

Altair

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Even if the “September Promise” is kept, I will still view as a failure since the rest of the developed world (and others) will be vaccinated months before us (according to most reporting I have seen).

There needs to be an investigation into that dodgy CanSino deal. Why anyone in government thought that was a good idea is beyond me.
Canada isn't the rest of the developed world.

Europe is buying vaccines as a bloc and is distributing them as a bloc.

USA is making and distributing them as a bloc as well. And both of them have put export controls in place, leading to vaccine manufactures being hesitant to cut their deliveries. there are a few countries that are currently ahead of canada that do not fall under these two categories, and we should see how they did it, but at the end of the day, we weren't going to be butting ahead of the USA or the EU in terms of vaccinating our citizens, so unless you want to join either, Canada's fate was sealed the second this pandemic started.
 

mariomike

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I'm no expert on vaccines. But, I must have passed Connaught Labs in the Fisherville area of Metro a million times.

Never gave it a lot of thought, but naively assumed they were prepared to handle a pandemic.


Canada once had a publicly owned pharmaceutical company that could have made a difference in the current coronavirus crisis — except that we sold it.
 

Altair

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I'm no expert on vaccines. But, I must have passed Connaught Labs in the Fisherville area of Metro a million times.

Never gave it a lot of thought, but naively assumed they were prepared to handle a pandemic.

Ah yes, the private sector does it better, until they start slashing your vaccine deliveries.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Canada isn't the rest of the developed world.

Europe is buying vaccines as a bloc and is distributing them as a bloc.

USA is making and distributing them as a bloc as well. And both of them have put export controls in place, leading to vaccine manufactures being hesitant to cut their deliveries. there are a few countries that are currently ahead of canada that do not fall under these two categories, and we should see how they did it, but at the end of the day, we weren't going to be butting ahead of the USA or the EU in terms of vaccinating our citizens, so unless you want to join either, Canada's fate was sealed the second this pandemic started.
I rather think we had a chance, at least as well as the British and some others. I think what sealed our fate is the PM's obsession with Red China. He gambled that the ChiComs wouldn't fuck him. But they did. That's when we went behind the 8 ball. By the time he realized he was screwed, it was too late and we went to the back of the line for other sources.

I still don't know what he was thinking going to Red China anyway. I doubt a whole lot of Canadians would've trusted their vaccine. You wouldn't have seen me get it.
 
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Altair

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I rather think we had a chance, at least as well as the British and some others. I think what sealed our fate is the PM's obsession with Red China. He gambled that the ChiComs wouldn't fuck him. But they did. That's when we went behind the 8 ball. By the time he realized he was screwed, it was too late and we went to the back of the line for other sources.
The UK is producing the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine at home. Thus while being out of the EU, they have homegrown vaccine manufacturing capabilities.
 

Fishbone Jones

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The facts don’t support your claim. Not being able to think of something doesn’t mean it’s not there. Per the ‘Trudeaumeter’ tracking website, well over half of his platform promises have been achieved, slightly over a quarter broken, and the rest in various stages of progress. Though Trudeau is hardly a subject you can be accused of having an objective opinion of...


While his polling has lagged mildly (weird to see you suddenly put any stock in polling), I don’t see the ‘plummet’ you refer to. We’re the opposition to get together to force an election now, the LPC would likely come out of it no worse than they go in, and are very conceivably in striking distance of a majority.

My guess is come this fall once widespread vaccination is achieved and the economy is substantially reopened, we’ll see an election. This far the CPC simply haven’t shown what they need to show to pull it off. While they very likely have my vote, they need to pull a lot more of the centrist swing voters than they have so far. O’Toole is targeting the right voters, but hasn’t really found purchase yet.
I don't believe polls much no. I'm simply repeating what I heard on the CTV news. They said he was plummeting and that there was only a four point, and closing, spread between the grits and tories. I assume they got their information from a poll. CTV is one of trudeau's bought off media outlets. I didn't look at your link, but if the poll results are wildly different, it proves my point about them.
 

Fishbone Jones

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The UK is producing the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine at home. Thus while being out of the EU, they have homegrown vaccine manufacturing capabilities.
It doesn't negate my hypothesis though. Simply a matter of exchanging Britain for one of the non production countries that are ahead of us. Besides, secondary supply is just a byproduct. The main issue is his initial, weird and wacky, "I admire the Chinese" deal. That set the stage, and results, for everything that followed.

I'll pick up tomorrow, if I have to. I've been here too long today.

Cheers
 

brihard

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I don't believe polls much no. I'm simply repeating what I heard on the CTV news. They said he was plummeting and that there was only a four point, and closing, spread between the grits and tories. I assume they got their information from a poll. CTV is one of trudeau's bought off media outlets. I didn't look at your link, but if the poll results are wildly different, it proves my point about them.
Given that the link I provided had absolutely nothing to do with polling, it was readily apparent that you didn’t click it. Given that I even described what I was, it’s equally apparent you were quite selective in what you bothered to read.

Out of curiosity, what facts underlie your claim that CTV is a ‘bought off’ media outlet?

Here’s another interesting article from the National Post. It’s called “The Media Subsidy Myth”. I’m probably wasting my time offering it to you though. https://nationalpost.com/opinion/kevin-crull-the-media-subsidy-myth
 

Jarnhamar

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Just wondering if you would give the gov any credit if they achieve it.
Give them credit? I guess so, but I'd consider it the same boat as giving someone a medal for doing their job (after they royally shit the bed in the first place, tried to hide information about it then tried to hide the work they did afterwards..).

So yes :)
 
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