Comparing the Regiments (PPCLI, RCR, and R22eR) and thier bases

[GO!!!]

I'm with geo on this one. Any OC or CO who needs to go around his chain of command to 'get at the truth' is, knowingly or not, probably demonstrating a lack of confidence in the ability of his/her NCOs and Officers to do their jobs.

And obviously, any soldier who speaks up in this kind of forum could also be hammered for it later on, out of site of the OC/CO, so likely no mysteries there about why soldiers clam up in these kinds of public meetings.

+1 to what paracowboy said, BS to all of the above.

The best quote I've ever heard in respect to this issue is "We don't keep secrets in this company", from the CSM. This goes a long way in keeping the peace, because it means that everybody is in the know, in reference to course dates, exercises, TO&E etc. IMHE, a company in which everyone knows and understands why they are doing something and when is alot happier than the one in which everything is a surprise.

I've been to plenty of OCs hours where the lower ranks have spoken up, and even more informal times when the OC is out in the smoking area and someone takes a puff and says "you know what's fucked up sir?" Never once have I seen an officer not listen, and never once have I seen a soldier disciplined, formally or otherwise for bringing up a beef. More often, the target of the question will give a quick explanation of why things are the way they are. They might not change, but at least the reason why  is known.

Bn COs hours are a little different, I believe because of the natural aversion most people have to bringing up an unpleasant point in front of 500 people, and the fact that timing can be an issue. If you sit down for a heart to heart at 16:26 on the thursday before a long weekend, after a 2 hour brief, the silence can be deafening!

As for an officer demonstrating a "lack of confidence" in his NCOs by asking the troops what's on their mind, I think that is BS. That sounds to me like an excuse for turning a blind eye to the concerns of your men, and IMHO, would be the stance of a very insecure leader. If you can't (or won't) face your men, you have a big problem as a leader, especially in the military.

 

[armyvern]

And +2 to Go!!!

Bang on.

 

[paracowboy]

So, if it's apparently so safe to speak out, any thoughts on why the troops choose to remain silent?

they're stupid? They'd rather whine and bitch and snivel than actually do something productive?

 

[geo]

+1 Go!!!

 

[daftandbarmy]

Very true. I would say that the 'public forum' approach is flawed if it's the ONLY way an OC gathers feedback from his troops, which is unlikely to be the case.

 

[Alex22]

Thats weird, but when we get an OC hour in the 1st vandoos... theres always a few Cpls or Mcpls that speak up for everyone. We usually have
b!tched about what we dont like enough so that everyone is aware of what is good and what not. So usualy 2 or 3 guys can cover most of the issues we want to talk about. But anyway, most of the time, the answer we get is "politicaly correct" but mean sweet nothing... I dont wanna talk too much about it, but during the Maple Guardian exercice in Wainwright 1 month and a half ago. We woke up one morning to learn that our Coy Sargent-Major had been "dismissed". He had simply been kicked out of the company. This meant that 2 month before going oversea, they took out our MWO, which was a very good one, and gave us a new one. We couldnt even see him as he returned back to Qubec during the night, and we never had to get an OC hour before like 2 weeks ago. Even if wed been askin for one since that morning. We were able to talk to our Coy commander, which is a very good one also, and he told us that our SMC had some issue with the the CO and his Chief Warrant officer. And that mostly, the reason they gave him was: "it all started when a few guys showed up at a Squad live range with Red canada flags."

 

[GO!!!]

. And that mostly, the reason they gave him was: "it all started when a few guys showed up at a Squad live range with Red canada flags."

So? How is that a problem?

 

[geo]

Well, that SSMs do not see eye to eye with their OC &/or RSM is no big thing.
The CWO expects dialogue and thinking from his SSMs.  There is a time for discussion and then it's time to execute instructions to the best of one's abilities.

If the SSM or RSM is unable to adopt the party line, then there is bound to be steps taken to ensure that it happens or.... things will happen.

This red / green flag thing is only the tip of the iceberg - what the ORs in the Troops see....

 

[Melietcetera]

Hi,

I read somewhere on the infantry pages that Princess Patricia has a high turn-over rate.  Is that relative to the others?  Is it because they have been sent to Afghanistan
(et cetera) in bigger numbers or are they more "hard core" so people transfer out...?  If I had the choice, I'd like to join them (because of their history, not just because I'm from Calgary or because of "creature comforts").

 

[George Wallace]

Hi,

I read somewhere on the infantry pages that Princess Patricia has a high turn-over rate.  Is that relative to the others?  Is it because they have been sent to Afghanistan
(et cetera) in bigger numbers or are they more "hard core" so people transfer out...?  If I had the choice, I'd like to join them (because of their history, not just because I'm from Calgary or because of "creature comforts").

You will find that all units may go through similar phases.  Many factors can cause this; inactivity, too much activity, slow career progression, career planning on the part of a soldier who may want a profession on retirement, poor Officers, poor NCOs, bad CO, bad RSM, poor living conditions for family, personal problems, financial problems, injury, offer from a civilian company that is too good to pass up, lack of equipment to train on, too many deployments, too few deployments, lack of good/interesting training, and many more.  Most boil down to a problem at a certain period of the unit history where morale is at an all-time low.  Others are the people choosing more promising career paths.  You will find these symptoms at differing times and to differing degrees throughout all units, Trades and jobs, including civilian jobs. 

 

[3rd Herd]

Hi,

I read somewhere on the infantry pages that Princess Patricia has a high turn-over rate.  Is that relative to the others?  Is it because they have been sent to Afghanistan
(et cetera) in bigger numbers or are they more "hard core" so people transfer out...?  If I had the choice, I'd like to join them (because of their history, not just because I'm from Calgary or because of "creature comforts").

Unless I am corrected ALL infantry have a high turn over. Unlike other branches of the Cbt arms (and other CF services) we carry our kit on our backs, we do not have our kit carry us. ;D

 

[geo]

Ahem - 3rd...

It's not just the infantry that carries the big load!

Having served in both trades, I can fairly state that neither is a bowl of unpitted cherries....

 

[reddevilsrock]

Dudes, really not much difference between regiments anymore due to the way we are running in afghanistan. The whole regimental thing is slipping by the wayside which is good or bad depending on your take. To decide which regiment to join by where there are is a whatever kind of statement. In 20 years I lived in Vic, Calgary, Edmonton, Kamloops, Fredricton. Did courses almost everywhere. Everywhere usually has good army bars. Can't speak for Pet was never there. From my experience I would say Edmonton is the most Pro Army and most receptive.

 

[thegeneral]

sure pet. is not the best town its no edmonton no quebec city but i didnt join and work hard to be at the top of my courses to be concerned about social life.. and where i can party.. that should be the furthest thing from any soliders mind at these times of days.. i get payed to be ready at anytime. as so should you..

..PRO PATRIA...

 

[Chilly]

general, bud time to suck back and reload.

You are barking up the wrong tree here.

Those who are "attacking you" are letting you know in their own way that you need to slow down and relax. Secondly filling out your profile helps others know what kind of experience you have - and judging from your style of posts I would say that you have 2-3 yrs in and are no more than 20 to 23 yrs old.

It's nice to see that you are so enthusiastic about your chosen profession, however, you are working your self towards something a lot of newer members do. You will gain much more respect buy composing your posts with proper sentence structure and grammar, not to mention spelling. If the spelling isn't your strong suit then start using spell check.

Slow down and relax the world is not out to get you!

Chilly

 

[VANDOO]

Well I on the other hand, did my time with the 3 regiments, I was a reservist for 4 years in the infantry, I worked at the infantry school, for 2 1/2 years of that and had the pleasure, no the privilege of working with all 3.

PPCLI are very professional but nothing light about them, wanna keep in shape they are your crew, they also have the fastest promotion rate right now, they can't keep the troops in the West;
RCR also very professional but more vehicle based depending on the Battalion of course, but like a previous comment they are very old tradition and tend to stick to it.
VANDOOS my old family, spend better part of 12 years with them, if your not French don't even think about it, I am Acadien, and fitting in is hard to do, but once you are part of the family they will give you their souls to help you. If you need more info on the VANDOOS ask I should be logging on more often now that my job has changed.

Je Me Souviens
X-VANDOO

 

[geo]

Ex...
The vandoos will give you the shirt of their back - so long as you show them that you are trying.
I remember one Newf who made it from Lt to Lcol in the R22R family.  Good man, awful french... but who cares, the boys understood him and they respected him for having made the effort....

Je me souviens!

err.... Ducimus!

err... CHIMO!!!

 

[Col.Steiner]

Ex...
The vandoos will give you the shirt of their back - so long as you show them that you are trying.
I remember one Newf who made it from Lt to Lcol in the R22R family.  Good man, awful french... but who cares, the boys understood him and they respected him for having made the effort....

Je me souviens!

err.... Ducimus!

err... CHIMO!!!

Geo, I was just wondering about how an Anglophone would get along in the Vandoos! I am reenlisting and I live in Montreal and my wife and I would prefer to stay close to by if at all possible. We have decided that the quality of life is better for us here, after living out west, and I was wondering if I could even join the Vandoos as an English guy? I realize there is a language course, but would that cut it for working in an all French regiment?

 

[geo]

Hmmm.... if you want to make it work, then it probably can work
It does not have to be pretty at the begining - functional will do... then you'll have plenty of time and oportunity to improve your language skills.

 

[VANDOO]

Sorry for answering so late, I was enjoying leave with the family.

Basically if you speak french and can read it, everything you will learn is in french, you can make it, I am Acadian, and I made it.


to my fallen comrade yesterday, the first Vandoo to pass on in Afghanistan

Je Me Souviens