Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Spencer100]

But what of those working for the Dear Leader across the Pacific whom he admires so much?

I don’t for a second think this is just a bumbling effort of late-to-the-game poor governance by a youthful McGill grad and his friends and some Gen-Z interns…

I am still in my heart I hope that this a Hanlon's Razor situation.....But I fear you are correct.

 

[Halifax Tar]

And again, I offer my sincere condolences for all the protestors killed and wounded during the Windsor police bridge clearing operation.

What's the point of this ?

 

[Gunnar]

Clearly, if you value freedom and rights, the sane answer is anybody but the LPC and NDP.

Clearly, you haven’t considered whether or not they have nice hair. What kind of voter are you if you can’t take things seriously?

 

[Altair]

Windsor is a different beast, no ?

It is.

It may mean that to use the Windsor template in Ottawa requires a lot more officers than the Ottawa Police Service has on hand, like Sloly said.

Or maybe they always had enough officers, as the new chief is saying.

 

[Altair]

What's the point of this ?

Is it not polite to offer condolences?

 

[Good2Golf]

What's the point of this ?

I think he’s roundabout making the point that Doug Ford’s declaration of a State of Emergency in Ontario was entirely sufficient for peaceful resolution of blockades, and Trudeau had no justification to up the ante to the country-wide Emergencies Act.

 

[Altair]

I think he’s roundabout making the point that Doug Ford’s declaration of a State of Emergency in Ontario was entirely sufficient for peaceful resolution of blockades, and Trudeau had no justification to up the ante to the country-wide Emergencies Act.

 

[Remius]

It’s because a few pages ago when people were asking for police action some equated that to having police cracking heads open and shooting people and being a bit over dramatic when Ford declared a state of emergency.

 

[Altair]

The police are doing exactly their jobs by keeping the peace and allowing the exercise of fundamental rights. Just because Trudeau disagrees with the Charter doesn't mean the police do.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1494020714738995204

Against the charter?

 

[KevinB]

I think he’s roundabout making the point that Doug Ford’s declaration of a State of Emergency in Ontario was entirely sufficient for peaceful resolution of blockades, and Trudeau had no justification to up the ante to the country-wide Emergencies Act.

I just assumed yet again more trolling...

 

[QV]

Non violent does not always equate to peaceful. It should be lawful vs unlawful. This one is no longer lawful.

Says you.

 

[QV]

It is.

It may mean that to use the Windsor template in Ottawa requires a lot more officers than the Ottawa Police Service has on hand, like Sloly said.

Or maybe they always had enough officers, as the new chief is saying.

Or maybe blockading a port of entry is different then camping out on the streets in front of Parliament.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Hmm, I don't quite get your reasoning here. The loss of business for everyone downtown Ottawa is a concern for all Canadians and what these "protestors" are doing there is not right.
People can vote with their wallets, that is their right. But death threats to employees who's only connection to the owner is that they work there? What kind of person does that? It has been noted by folks like Paul Wells and David Herle that their 60's protest friends are very quick now to advocate for the cops or the army to come in a break some heads. Funny how the comfortable folks become freedom of the land types when their comfort is challenged by what they consider "The Great Unwashed".

Someone who deserves a good beat down of their own.

 

[Spencer100]

Says you.

In Ottawa what laws have been broken above by-law, parking, noise and general nuisance? These are not Nation ending law breaking. Even the few large offenses have been dealt with. The largest and most important offence is the PM was and is made to look bad.

 

[Remius]

Says you.

I’ll drop this here without comment and you can educate yourself. No need to thank me.

 

[Altair]

Or maybe blockading a port of entry is different then camping out on the streets in front of Parliament.

There are differences yes, but the law is the law.

 

[Brad Sallows]

there is a lesson to be learned in giving money to dubious causes led by sketchy people on unsecure platforms.

Yes; the lesson is that it brings out the vengeful ethically vacuous idiots among media, and the tyrannical totalitarians among readers/viewers. Pretty much everyone by now reasonably knows the consequences of doxxing (ignorance can no longer be claimed as an excuse). It's rarely punishment proportionate to "crime". All information is theoretically "news", but information ordinarily considered confidential should remain confidential unless it serves a public interest. Knowing who donated a couple of hundred bucks to an amorphous protest movement is not a public interest - maybe as far as the people charged with investigating crime, and that's it. If you don't reasonably need to know it, you shouldn't go looking. Otherwise, you are, charitably, a nosy busybody and an asshole. To publish it is obviously to be much more discreditable than that. In current political climates perhaps publication of donor lists should itself be a crime. It would be a sacrifice to political transparency, but the safety and security and liberty of persons evidently is at stake.

"Respect the dignity of all persons."

Maybe a new case study for ethics seminars: "I know something discreditable or potentially embarrassing, and ordinarily confidential or at least not ordinarily given widespread dissemination, about someone. May I promulgate it in order to diminish and punish her for her views?"

On the speculation between nefarious/incompetent government: always choose the simpler explanation (incompetence). The government led with trying to slime the protestors. I've read "The Prince" and "The Art of War", and don't recall "Use intemperate language to burn your options for negotiation" as advice. I suppose maybe it's in the art of negotiation - establish some sort of moral high ground so that your opponents will beg to meet your terms in order to regain your good opinion of them? Then we have a period of dithering and hand-wringing and further denunciations. Then finally we have invocation of the EA AFTER ordinary powers have been shown capable of dealing with demonstrations and blockades. "Experts".

An "emergency" is an event which exceeds your capability to deal with it. Part of capability is competence, but it's a poor excuse for resorting to calling your problem an "emergency".

Speaking of unlawful assemblies, the teenagers who sometimes gather late in the evening in the park behind my house occasionally behave "tumultuously". Good example of a law that needs a more stringent definition.

 

[KevinB]

I’ll drop this here without comment and you can educate yourself. No need to thanks thank me.

View attachment 68739

Key being tumultuously.
Given the precedent for other protests than have been conducted, and dealt with, or ignored by LE in Canada, it's hard to figure out exactly what the bar is for tumultuously is currently.

 

[Remius]

Key being tumultuously.
Given the precedent for other protests than have been conducted, and dealt with, or ignored by LE in Canada, it's hard to figure out exactly what the bar is for tumultuously is currently.

To an extent. I’ve pointed out two of the more publicly known events in Ottawa where the protests were declared unlawful. The BLM one in 2020 where everyone was arrested on day 3. And the Occupy Ottawa movement after 30 days.

I can’t speak to all of Canada as each jurisdiction makes the call at their level. However in Ottawa unlawful assembly is usually dealt with.

 

[Altair]

Key being tumultuously.
Given the precedent for other protests than have been conducted, and dealt with, or ignored by LE in Canada, it's hard to figure out exactly what the bar is for tumultuously is currently.

There are benefits of being a unitary state like France, where most everything is run out of the capital with the regions and municipalities having far less power.

That way there is more or less one standard across the country, for better or for worse.

Otherwise, you get situations where the RCMP crack down on environmental and first nations protestors in BC and the OPP just sit around while First nations blockade rail lines.

Every police chief gets to decide what they will and will not put up with, which leads to people not knowing what is allowed or not allowed.