If it is written, then it's true. Toronto Star says new attack helicopters.

[ExSarge]

Canada, will not buy “Gunship’s” we may however be allowed to purchase “aerial anti-aggression and anger suppression vehicles” Rather then weapons systems they will be equipped with antisocial behavioural modification systems. These systems will be capable of delivering high speed metal jacketed message capsules each one individually inscribed in the language of your choice “USE YOUR WORDS”!

 

[PO2FinClk]

11900 is all up weight.

Empty they're 7900'ish.....
Crew - 600
Gas for 3 hrs 2100 lbs
------------
10,600

That leaves 1300 lbs for the guns and ammo - again, have no idea how much the kit weighs.

Out of my lane, but weapons aside this leaves very little room for armour plating doesn't it? I recall them having lift limitations due to the added weight of plating in Bosnia, let alone new weaponery.

Leighton & Dion would have a field day with this one.

 

[PO2FinClk]

Incidently, CASR had a page on this very subject as of last September which, to me at least, indicates that some CAS/CAD offices were truly studying this possibility. I would not believe the written media on its own, but seeing CASR reporting on it as well indicates some  value of legitimacy.

 

[Sf2]

1300 lbs can be eaten up quickly, you're right.  But you don't necessarily have to carry 2100 lbs of gas.  You could carry half that....then have FARPs set up enroute.  There are many ways to play the game.

 

[Red 6]

Aerial compliance moderators?

Vertical-lift Peace Operations Defensive Support Aircraft, 1 each?

 

[Reccesoldier]

Vertical-lift Peace Operations Defensive Support Aircraft, 1 each?

Much better, were you a QM in a former life?

 

[observor 69]

http://www.aircav.com/huey/uh1.html

"Hueys” armed with only two M60D door guns, called “Slicks” because of their uncluttered external appearance, were the backbone of all airmobile combat operations in Vietnam. Unarmed MedEvac “Hueys” were called “Dust Offs”, because of the clouds of dust kicked-up, when landing."

If the Yanks did this with a twin Huey then I imagine we should be able to do it with a Griffin.
Now working at the altitudes of Afghanistan could be a problem. I read somewhere that these type of choppers primarily work at night in cooler air?

Thoughts?

 

[Red 6]

Much better, were you a QM in a former life?

Negative, if I was I could've gotten a contract to come up with the name instead of doing it for nothing

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

STOP I'M HAVING FLASHBACKS TO THE EARLY 90'S!!!
"Me, if I'm elected i will cancel those cadilac helicopters!" J Chretien.  :rage:

 

[Inch]

Out of my lane, but weapons aside this leaves very little room for armour plating doesn't it? I recall them having lift limitations due to the added weight of plating in Bosnia, let alone new weaponery.

Leighton & Dion would have a field day with this one.

There seems to be quite the misconception that helicopters are armoured. They are not, no, not even the Apache, armour is heavy and really not worth the weight if you take a shot in the tail rotor. They're not designed to be APC's. I don't know the Griffon's set up, but anything more than kevlar seat cushions is a waste of torque. You should be using the terrain to your advantage, not going head to head with AA.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

There seems to be quite the misconception that helicopters are armoured. They are not, no, not even the Apache,

Yes it is:

Crew seats, by Simula Inc, are of lightweight Kevlar. ... Crew stations are protected by Ceradyne Inc lightweight boron armour shields in cockpit floor and sides, and between cockpits, offering protection against 12.7 mm armour-piercing rounds.

http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/jawa/jawa001013_1_n.shtml (scroll down to "Accommodation")

 

[fighter puke]

The griffon isn't "mast torque" limited.  Its the transmission that is the weak leak that requires de-rating of engine power.

I beg to differ with you, but it is "mast torque limited". The sensor is located at the base of the mast and reads differential torque values from the mast in relation to xmsn rpm.....thus producing a signal that is routed through the signal conditioner and read from the tripple torque indicator in the cockpit.......don't let then fighter puke moniquer fool you....I did my time on the Griffon as well......

 

[reccecrewman]

Fighter Puke...............  I'm not lookin' to pick a fight here, but it would help if you'd throw a little more info on your profile to allow members to see what experience you have and a little of what you've done. The more complete the profile, the more credible your posts become.

BTW, I don't doubt for a second that spiel you just put up about the Griffon........ But then again, B.S can baffle brains.  ;D Kidding aside, I know jack squat about aircraft, it's completely out of my lanes, so I'll just continue reading........

Regards

 

[fighter puke]

Good point recce.......I have made a habit of putting up less than required info.......lots of loons out there........in this case, I will update.......

 

[Taylor187]

Someone needs to tell O'Conner that if he buys the Bell AH-1W Super Cobra (Or Zulu Cobra if the composite four bladed rotor system and T700-GE-401 engines makes him giddy[if they're in production by the time ottawa is ready to buy])  he can replace the Griffons with UH-1Y Venom which have an 84% parts commonality with the Super Cobra. Cost savings at its finest.

TGIF, road trip to Ottawa.

 

[George Wallace]

Someone needs to tell O'Conner that if he buys the Bell AH-1W Super Cobra (Or Zulu Cobra if the composite four bladed rotor system and T700-GE-401 engines makes him giddy[if they're in production by the time ottawa is ready to buy])  he can replace the Griffons with UH-1Y Venom which have an 84% parts commonality with the Super Cobra. Cost savings at its finest.

So you're advocating that we go back to the 'Twin Huey'?  Just because it has some common parts with the AH-1Z Super Cobra?

And that would bring us to the example of the Lynx and M113.  The M113 being of 1965 vintage and the Lynx being of 1967 vintage........and which one is now long removed from the CF inventory, even though it has 'some' parts common to the M113..................but unfortunately not ALL parts.

 

[Reccesoldier]

So you're advocating that we go back to the 'Twin Huey'?  Just because it has some common parts with the AH-1Z Super Cobra?

And that would bring us to the example of the Lynx and M113.  The M113 being of 1965 vintage and the Lynx being of 1967 vintage........and which one is now long removed from the CF inventory, even though it has 'some' parts common to the M113..................but unfortunately not ALL parts.

You might be on to something there George... BRING BACK THE LYNX!!!!!!

 

[aesop081]

So you're advocating that we go back to the 'Twin Huey'?  Just because it has some common parts with the AH-1Z Super Cobra?

The UH-1Y is hardly the twin Huey.......just like the AH-1Z is nothing like the previous Cobras.....

Aviation obviously not your thing

 

[Sf2]

The griffon isn't "mast torque" limited.  Its the transmission that is the weak leak that requires de-rating of engine power.

I beg to differ with you, but it is "mast torque limited". The sensor is located at the base of the mast and reads differential torque values from the mast in relation to xmsn rpm.....thus producing a signal that is routed through the signal conditioner and read from the tripple torque indicator in the cockpit.......don't let then fighter puke moniquer fool you....I did my time on the Griffon as well.....

Perhaps I mis-read your post.  I'm saying the mast isn't the physical limiting factor - ie the weak link in the chain - sure, the indications of torque are measured on the mast, but the reason why the engines are derated (read torque limiters) are because of the transmission, not because the mast is going to snap.  That's what I meant against your post.

 

[George Wallace]

The UH-1Y is hardly the twin Huey.......just like the AH-1Z isnt nothing like the previous Cobras.....

Aviation obviously not you thing

No it is not (see little box with Red and Gold(Yellow) above...  ;D ), but the UH-1Y is the continuation of UH-1N or what we called the CH135.  Does it really matter.  The comparison to the commonality of parts between the two and the same idea with the M113 and Lynx is what I am pointing out.