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Iran Super Thread- Merged

“Sleepwalking into a Nightmare” – great title! And, despite evidence of a seriously disjointed thought process (I hope they didn’t have to pay him too much – but he probably charges $50,000 per speech) he has some of the right answers.

His first mistake is in failing, utterly and miserably, to identify the enemy.

As much as almost every respectable politician in the West hates to admit it, Sam Huntington is right, although he made an unfortunate choice of words. It’s not a Clash of Civilizations, because, arguably, by any sensible standards, the enemy isn’t civilized. What is it? It’s a Clash of Cultures – all the higher mammals, even the rats, have some sore of culture. Huntington is right because his thesis explains what we see. No one likes it because it implies that we have to go to war with Islam. That’s not quite true. We have to go to war – no, we will be dragged into war with Afro-Arabian and Persian Islam. Now, that means a whole lot of it but we can, almost certainly, isolate and immunize the most populous and dynamic Islamic societies (in East Asia) and focus our attention (wrath) on the medieval, Afro-Arab/Persian branches.

His second failure is in suggesting that America has an important strategic interest in Israel’s survival. Lots of Americans (and Canadians), not just Jews by any means, have a very powerful moral interest in Israel’s survival and some of them have made Israel’s survival into an important political matter but, strategically Israel is not a big deal. There is an Islamic bomb, as Gingrich points out, already – it will fall into radical hands as soon as (not if) Pakistan falls into radical hands – Gingrich is right about ”Mushy”, too. Iran will have another soon enough, followed by heaven alone knows who else. Israel has a huge and growing strategic problem which, in my own (dark) view leads to only two options:

1. Israel falls to the Arabs – resulting another mass slaughter of the Jews; or

2. Israel strikes pre-emptively – resulting in a mass slaughter of the Arabs, which will be repaid, eventually, after they crawl out of the rubble.

He’s right that we have to fight and win a financial (oil revenue) war with the Arabs and Iranians. This war is between Barnett’s connected core – which needs lots and lots and then even more oil – and part of Barnett’s disconnected gap* which has too much of it. The problem is that oil is a fungible product. But, even so, we need to ensure that the core (including China and India) has (just) enough oil to meet its needs when (not if) the supplies from the Arabs are cut off – perhaps because the fields are burning away under a nuclear cloud. That means we need to get Russia’s considerable oil on line and into pipelines to China, Europe and India soon. We needn’t worry too much, I think, about Russia using our money to become powerful I have full confidence in Russian socio-political ineptitude and deeply rooted corruption to protect us for another generation, maybe, with a little bit of luck, even two.

We need to brace ourselves for a very long, very hard, very dirty war – one which we are culturally unprepared to wage.

One of the huge problems is that we may have to find ways to wage the war here, on our own soil, against our fellow-citizens. The Kadhr clan is only the tip of the iceberg, I think, and I have no idea how we differentiate between the hundreds of thousands of good, loyal, honest hard working people of Middle Eastern ethnicity/origin and the thousands (tens of thousands?) of enemy fifth columnists. But: we must meet and defeat the internal threats, too.

We want proxy combatants, if we can find them. I’m going back to what Thucydides calls the vulture strategy whereby we encourage civil wars and regional, internecine conflicts and the like. I understand his concern that, at the end, we have a smarter, tougher, braver enemy who hates us even more (survival of the fittest, and all that) but I think the risk is worth the effort if we can keep those internecine disputes running for a century or more.

Another front is financial. We have to disrupt the unregulated, nearly invisible system through which billions and billions of dollars from North America and Europe to heaven alone knows where.

Finally, there is a cultural front. We – liberals, democrats, intellectual and spiritual descendants of Locke, Hume, Smith, Burke, Mill and Berlin - must find ways to re-instil the ideals and ideas of liberalism into an intellectually overfed, complacent, lazy populace.

----------
* I disagree with Barnett’s map. I believe Russia is in the gap while Myanmar, Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam , Indonesia, the Pacific islands and even PNG have joined the core
 
Having been to Malaysia and hung out with my wife’s Muslim family, my opinion is that the Malays will only remain radical as long as the fire is under their feet. They are by nature a laid back people and I suspect many a radical Fundy is driven nuts by his bored & madly texting students.

The other problem is the 6 million+ Muslims in the US and growing, so far the diverse nature of the group and the cultural tendency to keep their heads down has prevented them from using their number as a voting bloc, but f they do, it will impact on the US resolve even more.

Also never forget that despite the rhetoric about the “Muslim Brotherhood” there are 2 distinct groups within (plus a bunch of minor sects) who hate each other with a passion, whatever they do, they will always have to keep one eye and one hand free to protect themselves from the other group. In fact the Iranian bomb will be more important as a regional blackmail threat, (read Saudi Arabia) than as a tool for the downfall of the West.
 
There is a certain convergence of events that can work in our favor, should we have leaders with the wit and will to take action.

1. Capitalizing on "Green" hysteria to force a switch to alternative forms of energy. The only realistic alternatives right now are nuclear for electrical baseline power and unconventional or synthetic hydrocarbon fuels for mobile use (this includes things like biodiesel, tarsands or oil shale, methane hydrates and synthetic natural gas generated from garbage in plasma furnaces). This cuts off the money supply and at the same time reduces the ability of the oil producing nations to threaten the supply to the "core". This is totally under our own control.

2. Rearranging the "team". Readers of the news will know there are groupings of nations outside of the "Core and Gap" models, and many of the old alignments have lost there relevance in today's world. NATO demonstrates the stresses, with the split between the "Anglosphere" and "Old Europe" as to who is actually doing the heavy lifting. Nations like the Netherlands, India, Japan and Australia as well as the "Partnership for Peace" nations in "New Europe" seem to have the will, if not always the skill or resources, and creating coalitions of the willing (including the dynamic Asian Islamic nations where appropriate) will probably get things done faster and more effectively rather than pushing against national "caveats" that disrupt operations within the outdated alliance structures.

3. Some nudges within Dar al Islam will probably trigger a chain reaction of religious conflict between the various subsets of Islam and competing power structures (like secular Ba'athist ideology). This "30 years war" will keep their attention focused inwards rather than outwards, however we need to remain engaged to prevent unacceptable outcomes including the wars spilling over into our boundaries or the indiscriminate use of nuclear weapons. This also provides a means to shape the outcome in ways more to our liking rather than accept some Darwinian monster arising from the ashes. This is in fact the current strategy, and the most contentious.

4. Being prepared to deal with multiple threats. Russia, China and the EU have competing interests with each other and the "Anglosphere", so what might work to our advantage (like using energy independence to remove the financial muscle from radical Islam) will set off alarms in other Cultures (Russia will not appreciate the global collapse of oil prices and may work to protect their financial interests, for example. See their provision of nuclear fuel to Iran in that light).

5. Being prepared to go "big" in military terms. As the Oceanic power, the United States can occupy the Indian Ocean and use that as interior lines of communication to apply pressure throughout the arc of Dar al Islam (From East Africa to Indonesia), disrupting trade and communications to launching raids and offensive operations as appropriate. Allied powers like Australia and Japan, and potential allies like India make this possible and relatively easy to do.

We will live in interesting times. How WW IV will turn out may well depend on a Curchill or FDR turning up on the world stage, and as Edward says, our weakest area is the cultural front at home; do we have the collective will power to see this through to the end?

 
The Russians have just given them fuel......

Perfect!

Now they can potentially make a bomb with Uranium or Plutonium.
That should speed things up a little.
 
Hmmmm.
This is new-not that new actually.......

Canada accuses Iran of being weapons pipeline
Allison Lampert, CanWest News Service 
Published: Tuesday, December 25th

KANDAHAR AIR FIELD, Afghanistan -- Canada has challenged the Iranian government over concerns that weapons and bomb-making equipment are slipping across the border to Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said Tuesday.

"We're very concerned that weapons are coming in from Iran," MacKay told reporters, while visiting Canadian troops with Gen. Rick Hillier in Kandahar province.

We're very concerned that these weapons are going to the insurgents and are keeping this issue alive. We've certainly made our views to the Iranian government about this known."

Improvised explosive devices, responsible for the majority of the deaths of the 73 Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan, were particularly a concern, he said.

"It's so difficult to cut these supply lines when you have people from other countries giving out weapons that are being used against Canadian Forces and troops from other countries."

Read it all here!
 
Russia denies missiles to Iran

MOSCOW, Russia (AP) -- The federal agency overseeing Russia's military exports on Friday denied reports that the country is planning to deliver a powerful new anti-aircraft missile system to Iran.

Iran's defense minister had said earlier this week that Russia was preparing to equip Iran with the S-300 missile system, which would dramatically increase the country's ability to repel an attack.

But Russia's Federal Military-Technical Cooperation Service denied the claim in a brief statement.

"The question of deliveries of S-300 systems to Iran, which has now arisen in the mass media, is not currently taking place, is not being considered and is not being discussed at this time with the Iranian side," said the agency, known by its Russian initials, FSVTS.

The system is capable of shooting down aircraft, cruise missiles and ballistic missile warheads at ranges of over 90 miles and at altitudes of about 90,000 feet. Russian military officials boast that its capabilities outstrip the U.S. Patriot missile system.
 
A piece by William Arkin of the Washington Post Dec. 27, one day before the denial in the CNN story above:

Russia Lends a Hand
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2007/12/the_cold_war_returns_in_iran.html#more

There were echoes of the cold war yesterday, as Iranian Defense Minister Mostafa Mohammad Najjar announced that Russia would supply his country with an S-300 air defense system, capable of shooting down aircraft, as well as ballistic and cruise missiles.

The White House, of course, expressed concern about the agreement, coming at a time when it has asked for a new round of United Nations sanctions on Iran. Russia, meanwhile, hasn't acknowledged the sale. But earlier this month, Russian military cooperation chief Mikhail Dmitriev argued that defense ties between Russia and Iran "reinforces stability in the region."

While there's a certain amount of nose-thumbing in Russia's position, there's also some merit. An improved Iranian air defense system could improve security in the region, particularly by deterring a unilateral Israeli attack. But while there are some upsides to Russian-Iranian cooperation on defensive systems, cooperation on offensive military equipment is something to worry about.

With a 90-mile maximum range, the S-300 is similar to the U.S. Patriot system. Along with the short-range Tor-M1 surface-to-air missile system that Russia delivered to Iran earlier this year, it would modernize Iranian air defenses -- previously based largely on deteriorating 1970s American technology.

And it would pretty much put the kibosh on Israel's ability to attack Iran on its own. Former Israeli Air Force Commander Eitan Ben-Eliyahu has said that the Russian missiles would make it significantly harder for Israel to attack from the air. And, even if an Iranian nuclear weapons program some day crossed a line that justified preemptive attack, the world would be far safer if there were technological and other constraints on unilateral action.

Adopting these systems would also make the Iranian military somewhat more transparent and make Iran more dependent on outside sources of military goods, both of which could be positive in the long-run if U.S.-Russian relations stay warm.

But those benefits are counterbalanced, though, when you move from talking about defensive military systems to offensive ones. And, indeed, Iran and Russia are in negotiations to expand military cooperation beyond air defenses, including attack helicopters and jet engines for a fleet of indigenous Iranian fighters. There have also been reports that Iran intends to purchase Russian Sukhoi Su-30 fighters.

Despite the cold-war-like response to the S-300 announcement, these other negotiations have gone on without much notice. But the buildup of Iranian military capabilities is far more likely than the buildup of its air defenses to be the spark of future conflict.

By William M. Arkin |  December 27, 2007; 8:01 AM ET

Mark
Ottawa
 
Nemo888 said:
The West has been pretty scummy to Iran and treated their national resources like we owned them for quite some time. I think its time to apologize and start diplomacy. We have no moral right to tell them anything until we do that.

What planet are you on? Do you want this western hating country to have nuke capability? Your posts never cease to amaze me.

If we are going to be all touchy feely-snivel-libertarian, why don't we kiss them too, and on their arse for that mattter.

The country is radicalised, they hate us, and if you went there to say 'gee, I am sorry' you would be butt stroked with their G3 rifles, until you were a red pulp!

Iran is a savage land, ran by a savage radical government, who will continue on the sly and in our faces to develop nuclear strength, putting their 13th century mentality along side with 21 century technology, with the west 1st on their hit list. They would either sell or give a warhead to a radical pro-islamc group for direct action against us. If you think not, you got your head in the sand, and are in complete denial of whats really going on.

As for the 'every day' sheeple of Iran, do you really think they are going to have any direct anti-government action against the current regime? Thats not going to happen. The one's which speak out are NOT living there, as this would equate to a quick 7.62mm ball rd in the back of the head (along your internal/external family dissappearing), of course that would be after some terrible torture of some kind.

Their capibilities for such energy must be quashed at any price, if not, its our children's generation who will have to deal with it, and by then it could be too late.

Its a matter of time, and sooner, not later that Iran will be in the crosshairs from the air. Delaying this will only complicate things as they are advancing in the technology as you read this.
 
"Iran is a savage land, ran by a savage radical government, who will continue on the sly and in our faces to develop nuclear strength, putting their 13th century mentality along side with 21 century technology, with the west 1st on their hit list."


+5
 
Their capibilities for such energy must be quashed at any price, if not, its our children's generation who will have to deal with it, and by then it could be too late.

Sorry old boy.

I doubt it would keep that long.

I think WE need to deal with it now or WE will deal with it later.
Or, God forbid, It will deal with us. :'(
 
think WE need to deal with it now or WE will deal with it later.
Or, God forbid, It will deal with us. 
 


+5
 
Flip said:
Sorry old boy.

I doubt it would keep that long.

I think WE need to deal with it now or WE will deal with it later.
Or, God forbid, It will deal with us. :'(

Old Boy, ha, I like that one.

I still feel like a 30 yr old, locked up in a 48 yr old body, which at times feels like a 30 yr old body, at times :)

cheers,

Wes
 
While I am as anxious as anybody to see the Iranian regime neutered - ie forcibly disarmed - I don't think it is fair to say that all Iranians qualify as "sheeple"

This from Iraqi News via Gateway Pundit

Over 240 large protests have been held against the regime in Iran this last month alone. At several of the protests they called for the death of the dictator, etc....

Iraqi-American Haider Ajina sent this news from The Iraqi News Agency.
Thanks to BG here is the rough translation:


Iranians are showing their discontent to the government in Iran with more than 240 protests in one month.

According to the figures recorded that Iran witnessed during the past Iranian month more than 240 protests organized by various groups and segments of Iranian society against the policies of the Iranian government. The Mujahideen Khalq announced that the various Iranian cities witnessed during the month and despite the increasing pace of executions and police raids more than 240 cases of strikes, picketing and protest demonstrations gathering in adverse to the regime and government policies.

Students scored more than 60 demonstrations. The most prominent demonstration was held during which students chanted "Death to the dictator", "Freedom our unwavering," and "We are women and men of fighting."

The workers have continued protesting against government policies which have registered about 40 cases of strikes and picketing.

Although this source doesn't have a long history to establish its credentials it is in line with the general tenor of reports coming out of Iran in the past and appearing in more reputable media.  We are talking about bombings in border states and riots in Tehran by all segments of society, both urban and rural.

Ahmadinejad may have the support of his Basij and the Republican Guard, but they are not Iran, nor are they even the Mullahs.  I think it is not inconceivable that the Mullahs are as frightened of Ahmadinejad as the "West" is.  Hence the rapprochement between the Khamenei and the Khatami forces in trying to limit Ahmadinejad's term and reducing his influence in city and national elections.


 
Kirkhill said:
While I am as anxious as anybody to see the Iranian regime neutered - ie forcibly disarmed - I don't think it is fair to say that all Iranians qualify as "sheeple".


Ahmadinejad may have the support of his Basij and the Republican Guard, but they are not Iran, nor are they even the Mullahs.  I think it is not inconceivable that the Mullahs are as frightened of Ahmadinejad as the "West" is.  Hence the rapprochement between the Khamenei and the Khatami forces in trying to limit Ahmadinejad's term and reducing his influence in city and national elections.

Kirkhill,

Don't you mean the "Revolutionary Guard"? Or is the Farsi translation of that entity similar to the translation for the Arabic word for "Republican Guard" of Iraq?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolutionary_Guard

As for calling all Iranians as "sheeple", I hope whoever called them "sheeple" didn't mean to include Iranian exiles living in North America, Europe and elsewhere since quite a number who have been living here and elsewhere outside of Iran for decades would not support Ahmadinejad.



 
Kirkhill said:
While I am as anxious as anybody to see the Iranian regime neutered - ie forcibly disarmed - I don't think it is fair to say that all Iranians qualify as "sheeple"

Sheeple as in the general public, nothing more, as in the sheeple of Australia etc. These are the people who jsut go with the flow, and carry out their daily business, it is not to be taken as ofensive.

Wes
 
Sheeple ? ;)
Bet you cant pick out the non-photo shop pic. 8)

iran+jews+sign.jpg

iranian+press+tv.JPG


iran+pwned2.jpg


iran+pwned1.jpg


iran+pwned+porn.jpg


Actually they were all photo shopped. But the top one was included in a news story run by a State owned publication, which makes it even funnier.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/R3ZZm74wglI/AAAAAAAAKIQ/NZH0GEg6O2Y/s1600-h/iranian+press+tv.JPG
 
For some stupid reason Defence is blocking these pics, and I can't see them. I am on duty for another 48h and 17mins, so I'll have to wait until I get home.

Cheers,

Wes
 
Try this link the original place I stole the pic;s from. ;D

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/
 
LINK

Report: Iran nuclear plant to launch in 2008

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- Iran said Sunday that it will begin operation of the country's first nuclear power plant in the summer of 2008 using half its 1,000 megawatt capacity, the official news agency IRNA reported.

Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said the Russians, who are helping build the light-water reactor in the southern Iranian town of Bushehr, will have completed nuclear fuel shipments by the summer, paving the way for its launch.

"Half of the capacity of the Bushehr nuclear power plant will be launched in the summer of the coming year," IRNA quoted Mottaki as saying.

After months of delay, Russia began shipping nuclear fuel to Bushehr in mid-December and completed its second delivery on Friday. The Iranians have said Russia will send a total of 82 tons of nuclear fuel in eight shipments.

The process was held up by Russian claims that Iran had delayed construction payments for the reactor, but many observers suggested Moscow also was unhappy with Tehran's unwillingness to assure the international community that it was not developing nuclear arms.

Tehran heralded the initial shipment as a victory, saying it proved its nuclear program was peaceful, not a cover for weapons development as claimed by the U.S. and some of its allies.
 
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