Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Part of the political issue I see as well is NDHQ needs start saying "No" the politicians keep committing us to things like a full brigade it Latvia, etc tell us to make it happen while trying to rebuild, reconstitute etc. We are getting pulled in every direction, not to mention domestic ops, and No one seems to be willing to say "sorry sir we can't actually meet these commitments" to the MND or cabinet.

As I recall didn't Hiller war people about this just after our first deployment to Afghanistan ?
And I argue we were in probably better shape then.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Except the Navy does force generation during force employment, so that balance always causes friction with CJOC.

It is wild that we do this. This and the state of our ships... god help the first crews to go into harms way.

 

[PrairieFella]

What we need is a full L1 mutiny... resignation. We need senior leaders willing to sacrifice their careers for the institution. The politicians now are signing the execution warrants for the troops in contact tomorrow. Bloody shameful. This government (or any government in recent memory) doesn't deserve its military.

 

[Navy_Pete]

It is wild that we do this. This and the state of our ships... god help the first crews to go into harms way.

Not really, a lot of our billets are a combination of having a job while doing training, so pretty normal to be working on OJTs for the next job while doing one of the MSE positions until you get to the EO/CERA spots (and then you are doing the oversight of training).

Tapers way down but no better way to figure out how to do the next job then watching someone else do it and then practicing it yourself. Also things like directing repair parties etc are all pretty core skills, and a lot easier to figure out while deployed when you can ask someone for advice or checking your plan.

Even once you are the final stop, you still talk it through with the team, but it's pretty easy to keep doing training without interfering with the work, and frankly we need to do the drills regularly anyway to make sure things are actually working.

 

[daftandbarmy]

What we need is a full L1 mutiny... resignation. We need senior leaders willing to sacrifice their careers for the institution.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Not really, a lot of our billets are a combination of having a job while doing training, so pretty normal to be working on OJTs for the next job while doing one of the MSE positions until you get to the EO/CERA spots (and then you are doing the oversight of training).

Tapers way down but no better way to figure out how to do the next job then watching someone else do it and then practicing it yourself. Also things like directing repair parties etc are all pretty core skills, and a lot easier to figure out while deployed when you can ask someone for advice or checking your plan.

Even once you are the final stop, you still talk it through with the team, but it's pretty easy to keep doing training without interfering with the work, and frankly we need to do the drills regularly anyway to make sure things are actually working.

Working on packages is one thing, rotating good positions of crews every 2 or 3 months is another.

It's also one thing for engineers and another for Ops folks.

We pushed back very hard and beat most of it away, we were lucky.

 

[GK .Dundas]

As I recall didn't Hiller war people about this just after our first deployment to Afghanistan ?
And I argue we were in probably better shape then.

Should read warn ..sigh .

 

[dapaterson]

Part of the political issue I see as well is NDHQ needs start saying "No" the politicians keep committing us to things like a full brigade it Latvia, etc tell us to make it happen while trying to rebuild, reconstitute etc. We are getting pulled in every direction, not to mention domestic ops, and No one seems to be willing to say "sorry sir we can't actually meet these commitments" to the MND or cabinet.

You might be surprised to see how things work, how options are presented by those organizations for leadership to consider.

In the immortal words of Pogo possum, we have met the enemy, and he is us.

 

[eliminator]

What we need is a full L1 mutiny... resignation. We need senior leaders willing to sacrifice their careers for the institution. The politicians now are signing the execution warrants for the troops in contact tomorrow. Bloody shameful. This government (or any government in recent memory) doesn't deserve its military.

I donno. Even if all the L1 Commanders resigned tomorrow in protest, after a few days of coverage on CBC (complete with brain-melting posts in the comments sections), they would all be promptly replaced; back to 'business as usual'.

Now is the time for leadership, not rearranging of deck chairs.

Looking back, there were some very high profile resignations during the lead up to Unification....what did that achieve?

 

[PrairieFella]

I donno. Even if all the L1 Commanders resigned tomorrow in protest, after a few days of coverage on CBC (complete with brain-melting posts in the comments sections), they would all be promptly replaced; back to 'business as usual'.

Now is the time for leadership, not rearranging of deck chairs.

Looking back, there were some very high profile resignations during the lead up to Unification....what did that achieve?

Good point. Let's be real too, were so beyond the point of any return, no government is going to near-double defence spending and loosen their byzantine procurement regulations, it gives them a very efficient cost-saving tool by being able to return billions to TBS every year haha.

 

[dapaterson]

Good point. Let's be real too, were so beyond the point of any return, no government is going to near-double defence spending and loosen their byzantine procurement regulations, it gives them a very efficient cost-saving tool by being able to return billions to TBS every year haha.

Explain what you mean by "return billions to TBS every year". Are you familiar with how the GoC does accrual accounting vs cash-based financial management? Can you discuss the OBCF and how it operates?

Interestingly, in the Supplementary estimates recently tabled, the GoC is seeking to give DND an additional billion dollars in capital funding this FY for the Husky and Polaris acquisitions.

Supplementary Estimates (C) 2023-24

www.pbo-dpb.ca

 

[PrairieFella]

Explain what you mean by "return billions to TBS every year". Are you familiar with how the GoC does accrual accounting vs cash-based financial management? Can you discuss the OBCF and how it operates?

Interestingly, in the Supplementary estimates recently tabled, the GoC is seeking to give DND an additional billion dollars in capital funding this FY for the Husky and Polaris acquisitions.

Supplementary Estimates (C) 2023-24

www.pbo-dpb.ca

Dude, no need to try and dunk lol. This is a niche, legacy internet forum and none of us or our opinions on the state of the CAF matter in the grand scheme. I'm obviously being hyperbolic. Of course I don't know (or care) "how the GoC does accrual accounting vs cash-based financial management". I know my job in the MO and I'm very knowledgeable in the ins and outs of the Act that governs my civilian job.

We're shitting on successive governments and their failure to give a care about the CAF, that's it.

 

[dapaterson]

Dude, no need to try and dunk lol. This is a niche, legacy internet forum and none of us or our opinions on the state of the CAF matter in the grand scheme. I'm obviously being hyperbolic. Of course I don't know (or care) "how the GoC does accrual accounting vs cash-based financial management". I know my job in the MO and I'm very knowledgeable in the ins and outs of the Act that governs my civilian job.

We're shitting on successive governments and their failure to give a care about the CAF, that's it.

Following approval of the Supps C, the GoC will have given DND/CAF $31,272,655,246 in authorities this FY. Do you know how it is managed?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Looking back, there were some very high profile resignations during the lead up to Unification....what did that achieve?

It opened up promotion opportunities for those who didn't quit, of course

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Following approval of the Supps C, the GoC will have given DND/CAF $31,272,655,246 in authorities this FY. Do you know how it is managed?

I may be an old broken retired dude who is out of the loop but I am pretty sure we are not giving the Canadian people (our real Boss) $31B worth of National Defence...

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I may be an old broken retired dude who is out of the loop but I am pretty sure we are not giving the Canadian people (our real Boss) $31B worth of National Defence...

No, but most of that $31Bn is returned to the government Canadian taxpayer in the form of porkbarelling reinvestment in Canadian Industry and other Ponzi schemes programs we are roped in on partnered in.

Remember, DND/CAF is the largest government department (that shouldnt be a government department) and thus we need to be prudent stewards of fiscal responsib- I can't finish that sentence without throwing up.

We are another economic stimulus package to Canadian industries that cannot support our defence requirements. Our government does not see us as more than a hog, fed scraps, only to be slaughtered when the cows and chickens stop producing milk and eggs.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

No, but most of that $31Bn is returned to the government Canadian taxpayer in the form of porkbarelling reinvestment in Canadian Industry and other Ponzi schemes programs we are roped in on partnered in.

Remember, DND/CAF is the largest government department (that shouldnt be a government department) and thus we need to be prudent stewards of fiscal responsib- I can't finish that sentence without throwing up.

We are another economic stimulus package to Canadian industries that cannot support our defence requirements. Our government does not see us as more than a hog, fed scraps, only to be slaughtered when the cows and chickens stop producing milk and eggs.

Industry and the CAF are like Chickens and Pigs for breakfast.

The chicken is involved. The pig is committed.

We be the pig.

Just sayin'

 

[Good2Golf]

I may be an old broken retired dude who is out of the loop but I am pretty sure we are not giving the Canadian people (our real Boss) $31B worth of National Defence...

Although perhaps arguably better than the $60B/year spent on our massively increased since 2015, but no more substantively productive federal public service…

 

[FJAG]

Part of the political issue I see as well is NDHQ needs start saying "No" the politicians keep committing us to things like a full brigade it Latvia, etc tell us to make it happen while trying to rebuild, reconstitute etc. We are getting pulled in every direction, not to mention domestic ops, and No one seems to be willing to say "sorry sir we can't actually meet these commitments" to the MND or cabinet.

When someone gives you $31 Billion a year, and you spend half of it on salaries, you better have a darn good excuse for saying no.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Working on packages is one thing, rotating good positions of crews every 2 or 3 months is another.

It's also one thing for engineers and another for Ops folks.

We pushed back very hard and beat most of it away, we were lucky.

Yeah, fair point, I think that's insane. Even with the people taking deployed leave you can get it covered by a small group so that one person will cover off 4 or 5 leave blocks for their peers so the actual rotation of crew is pretty minimal, aside from the one off positions, where it's a Command call if they can get it.