Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[ytz]

The problem with this sort of solution is it only works for essentially the Cbt arms, where you put hundreds of people from the same trade in a single location. What about all the smaller support dets that are required to keep the modern kit functioning, and keep the rest of the support functions alive?

When you have a det/section of 8 Veh Techs or 4 FSAs, how do you provide them with advancement and opportunity if they stay in that small det? We aren't struggling to fill the battalions as much as we are struggling to fill the support jobs that tend to work in small dets, and require somewhat frequent postings due to promotions.

This forum has a certain blindspot for support functions and especially all the emerging domains like space and cyber. Understandable, because some of that wasn't around when people here served. These emerging domains are particularly difficult. Virtually every job in Space and Cyber require TS. A lot of jobs needs caveats. Getting skilled people in, cleared and qualified is hard enough. Keeping them after they have all that skill and experience and a clearance is even more difficult.

 

[ytz]

Most employers don't try and restrict you to living within 30 minutes away either.

Debatable. My wife used to work HR. At various places she worked, there were people who didn't get offers because they simply lived too far for the employer's preference. It depends on the job and your skill level. But all things being equal, they'd prefer the candidate who lives closer and won't be at risk for lateness or absenteeism.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Ummm…Borden is an active Base.

It just looks dead from a distance.

 

[ytz]

And yet, how many hundreds of thousands if not millions of Canadians are making it work within a 1, 1.5 hour drive- many if not most on less than Corporal pay. Brings to mind @FJAG 's tiered/ non post-able service agreements.

It's not as common as you think. About 10% of all commuters travel more than an hour.

The average Canadian now spends 26.4 minutes travelling to work, just above the previous high of 26.3 minutes in May 2016, according to the data.

Cities in and around the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area are bearing the brunt of the country's long commutes. Toronto has the highest commuting time of 33.3 minutes, the data shows.
...
After Toronto, topping the list for longest commutes are Oshawa (32.6 minutes), Barrie (30.7 minutes), and Hamilton (30.6 minutes), where workers have longer commutes than people living in Vancouver (30.5 minutes) and Montreal (29 minutes).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/commute-times-toronto-1.7307002#:~:text=The%20data%20continues%20a%20rising,2016%2C%20according%20to%20the%20data.

From Stats Can:

Average commuting time returns to pre-pandemic levels​

Average commuting times fell both during and after the pandemic due to fewer commuters and more people working from home.

By May 2024, the era of shorter commuting times had come to an end, as the average commute time to work for regular commuters was 26.4 minutes, on par with the previous high of 26.3 minutes reached in May 2016. Average commuting times rose for workers who took a car, truck or van (+0.5 minutes to 24.6 minutes) but were little changed for public transit (43.1 minutes) or active transportation (14.6 minutes) commuters.

Commuting times varied considerably across CMAs in May 2024. The longest average commutes were in Toronto (33.3 minutes), Oshawa (32.6 minutes), Barrie (30.7 minutes), Hamilton (30.6 minutes) and Vancouver (30.5 minutes).

The shortest average commute times were in Lethbridge (16.6 minutes) and Saguenay (17.0 minutes).

More commuters have a long commute of one hour or more​

The share of commuters with a long commute of 60 minutes or more increased for the third year in a row in May 2024, following a notable drop during the pandemic.

In May 2024, 9.2% of all commuters had a long commute, up from 8.7% in May 2023 and 8.1% in May 2022. The share of commuters with a long commute in May 2024 was comparable to May 2016 levels, before the pandemic.

In Oshawa, one-fifth of commuters (20.0%) had a long commute, the largest share among all CMAs. Commuters in Toronto (15.7%), Barrie (14.6%), Abbotsford–Mission (14.2%) and Hamilton (13.8%) were also more likely to have a long commute.

The Daily — More Canadians commuting in 2024

The number of commuters reached 16.5 million in May 2024, continuing an upward trend that followed notable declines recorded during the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 and 2021.

www150.statcan.gc.ca

Feels based decision-making isn't going to go well. And offering 1-1.5 hr commutes in a country where the average commute is 27 mins isn't going to have the recruiting centre packed.

 

[KevinB]

This forum has a certain blindspot for support functions and especially all the emerging domains like space and cyber. Understandable, because some of that wasn't around when people here served. These emerging domains are particularly difficult. Virtually every job in Space and Cyber require TS. A lot of jobs needs caveats. Getting skilled people in, cleared and qualified is hard enough. Keeping them after they have all that skill and experience and a clearance is even more difficult.

It isn't necessarily that hard though.

I'll use 19th SFG as an example. It is legitimately spread out all over the country. Every 18 series MOS requires a TS, and all of the support personnel in the unit also require a TS.

Group HQ - Camp Williams, Utah
1st BN - BN HQ, Camp Williams, Utah
- A Coy, Buckley Armory, Washinton
- B Coy, Camp Williams, Utah
- C Coy, Los Alamitos Joint Trading Base, California
- Spt Coy, Camp Williams, Utah
2nd BN - BN HQ, SGM Earl R. Biggs Memorial Armed Forces Reserve Center, West Virginia
- A Coy, Middletown Armory, Rhode Island
- B Coy, Rickenbacker Air National Guard Base, Ohio
- C Coy, Camp Dawson, West Virginia
- Spt Coy, Same as BN HQ (too long to type out)
5th BN - BH HQ, Watkins Armory, Colorado
- A Coy, Camp Bullis, Texas
- B Coy, Buckley Space Force Base, Colorado
- C Coy, Camp Bullis, Texas
-Spt Coy, Watkins Armory, Colorado
Group Spt BN, BN HQ, John M. Browning Armory, Utah
- A Coy, same
- B Coy, same
- C Coy, Camp Williams, Utah
- F Coy, same

12 Different locations in 8 states across the US, members of 8 different State National Guard formations to report to as well as to USASOC (US Army Special Operations Command)

It really isn't that hard, the CAF just makes things incredibly hard.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I clarified down thread from that initial post.

Think about it like a series of concentric circles.

On the outside you have all the pool of people conceptually willing to do a job for a given amount of money.

Next step in, you have the smaller group of those people that are also willing/desirous of doing so in a military environment day to day.

Next step in, you have the smaller group of those people, that are also willing/desirous of the shorter term intrusions (and potential danger) of deployments.

Finally step in, you have the smaller group of those people, that are also willing to do all of the above PLUS be posted around the Country every 2-3 years.

That last group is not large enough for the CAF's needs. Would the group above it be?

I think the CAF should do everything it can to make itself a prefered employer. And if that means we utilize the ability to give ourselves some perks that not every Canadian gets, so be it.

If you want to enjoy what we offer, warts and all, the recruiting center is waiting for you.

Most employers don't try and restrict you to living within 30 minutes away either. The CAF needs to increase quality of life in order to keep people. Talk to any instructor posted to RCEMES, majority hate being posted to borden, especially if you have a family because you can't find housing easily on a MCpl/Sgt pay for a family of 4 and not be in traffic for 4 hours a day. If we had enough PMQs in every case that wouldn't be an issue.

So I have been at this job for over 25 years, and I have to be told I have live XX minutes from work. I have been told living outside certain geographic boundaries will cause me to lose PLD (Now CFHD); but I have never been told I have to live 30 mins or less from work.

I know people who are on my ship right now that live in Bridgwater and Windsor, both over an hour from the city.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It isn't necessarily that hard though.

I'll use 19th SFG as an example. It is legitimately spread out all over the country. Every 18 series MOS requires a TS, and all of the support personnel in the unit also require a TS.

Group HQ - Camp Williams, Utah
1st BN - BN HQ, Camp Williams, Utah
- A Coy, Buckley Armory, Washinton
- B Coy, Camp Williams, Utah
- C Coy, Los Alamitos Joint Trading Base, California
- Spt Coy, Camp Williams, Utah
2nd BN - BN HQ, SGM Earl R. Biggs Memorial Armed Forces Reserve Center, West Virginia
- A Coy, Middletown Armory, Rhode Island
- B Coy, Rickenbacker Air National Guard Base, Ohio
- C Coy, Camp Dawson, West Virginia
- Spt Coy, Same as BN HQ (too long to type out)
5th BN - BH HQ, Watkins Armory, Colorado
- A Coy, Camp Bullis, Texas
- B Coy, Buckley Space Force Base, Colorado
- C Coy, Camp Bullis, Texas
-Spt Coy, Watkins Armory, Colorado
Group Spt BN, BN HQ, John M. Browning Armory, Utah
- A Coy, same
- B Coy, same
- C Coy, Camp Williams, Utah
- F Coy, same

12 Different locations in 8 states across the US, members of 8 different State National Guard formations to report to as well as to USASOC (US Army Special Operations Command)

It really isn't that hard, the CAF just makes things incredibly hard.

The idea of reserve SOF is absurd to me. But then again in my service we can't get every sailor sea boots.

 

[KevinB]

The idea of reserve SOF is absurd to me. But then again in my service we can't get every sailor sea boots.

Vast majority are former Active duty folks - as well there are tons of missions across the globe, so lots of active guard time is available for those who want in those units.

My point was not that though - the issue is that you can have satellite formations for about any Military force (except the Navy) anywhere in the country - you just need an armory. The majority of the training will be done at either national level schools, or regional training centers.

 

[MilEME09]

The idea of reserve SOF is absurd to me. But then again in my service we can't get every sailor sea boots.

I mean CANSOFCOM has a reserve, but its only for ex members to my understanding

 

[OldSolduer]

I think the CAF should do everything it can to make itself a prefered employer. And if that means we utilize the ability to give ourselves some perks that not every Canadian gets, so be it.

I agree fully, but not so over the top that it causes real issues. AND a good recruiting program helps.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I mean CANSOFCOM has a reserve, but its only for ex members to my understanding

They do ?

I agree fully, but not so over the top that it causes real issues. AND a good recruiting program helps.

That's where I want our politicians to come out and tell the complainers, if you want those perks/benefits the recruiting center is waiting.

 

[IKnowNothing]

It's not as common as you think. About 10% of all commuters travel more than an hour.

The point wasn't the commute- it's the raw population of people living and working within a given radius of the place- by choice.

 

[IKnowNothing]

I think the CAF should do everything it can to make itself a prefered employer. And if that means we utilize the ability to give ourselves some perks that not every Canadian gets, so be it.

If you want to enjoy what we offer, warts and all, the recruiting center is waiting for you.

Assessing which warts are truly inherent to the offer and which are institutional own goals should be part of "everything"

 

[Kirkhill]

The problem with this sort of solution is it only works for essentially the Cbt arms, where you put hundreds of people from the same trade in a single location. What about all the smaller support dets that are required to keep the modern kit functioning, and keep the rest of the support functions alive?

When you have a det/section of 8 Veh Techs or 4 FSAs, how do you provide them with advancement and opportunity if they stay in that small det? We aren't struggling to fill the battalions as much as we are struggling to fill the support jobs that tend to work in small dets, and require somewhat frequent postings due to promotions.

Is this really the problem we make it out to be?

If there are two problems, combat arms and support arms, then why not two solutions? There used to be two solutions. The Woolwich solution and the Sandhurst solution.

Woolwich was all about technical trades. Sandhurst was the combat arms solution.

Maybe it is time to go back and revisit history.

As you note the support trades are a 24/7 occupation. The combat arms require a baseline to supply the Government with a rapid and deployable armed response. But they also require a cheap surge capacity.

As you also note, a lot of our inherited structures are geared towards surging of combat arms and, since WW2, the creation of a small standing army.

We have become accustomed to referring to Green and Purple forces. The original distinction was between Blues and Scarlets. The Scarlets were the combat arms, and included the surge capacity. The Blues were the Household or Government forces - Ordnance, Gunners, Engineers, Navy and Marines, and latterly the light blue Air Force.

Why not split the problem?

 

[Kirkhill]

Vast majority are former Active duty folks - as well there are tons of missions across the globe, so lots of active guard time is available for those who want in those units.

My point was not that though - the issue is that you can have satellite formations for about any Military force (except the Navy) anywhere in the country - you just need an armory. The majority of the training will be done at either national level schools, or regional training centers.

And former Active is what Reserve should be.

There is a problem with that word "Reserve".

Every commander holds capabilities in "reserve".
Tactical commanders hold a "reserve"
Units can be in "reserve" if they are 5 miles behind the line.
Countries create "strategic reserves" - sometimes that is an airborne unit, sometimes it is billions of gallons of oil in salt caverns.

In the States "Reserves" are as Kevin says, service personnel recently released from active service but current and ready to return to the colours on demand. Their terms of service.

The States also have their National Guard as a strategic reserve, someplace between those recently released "Reserves" and those caverns full of oil. Some of them are ready for immediate use. Some of them are simply raw material that require conversion to useful assets. And still others have skills but need converting to new capabilities.

Those reserves, R or r, can be stored all around the country in containers of various sizes and be held at various levels of readiness. Training can be adjusted to suit the size and locale. More important is maintaining an inventory of the skill sets, and numbers, held at each location.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Assessing which warts are truly inherent to the offer and which are institutional own goals should be part of "everything"

Absolutely. As an institution we need to identify our short comings and correct those.

 

[Halifax Tar]

And the Irish lol

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[MilEME09]

Speaking of infrastructure

Canada Invests in the Next Generation of Canadian-Made, Clean, Affordable Nuclear Energy - Canada.ca

On March 5, 2025, the Honourable Jonathan Wilkinson, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, announced several investments that demonstrate Canada’s commitment to clean energy, innovation and energy security as it continues to move toward a low-carbon economy.

www.canada.ca

 

[FJAG]

The idea of reserve SOF is absurd to me. But then again in my service we can't get every sailor sea boots.

And that's why Canada has a problem. The complete inability to think outside the box. 19 SOF deployed dozens of teams on op rotations to Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere during the GWoT. One of the stupidest things Canada does is have this ridiculous idea that reservists need to volunteer for operations - they can and should be placed on active service when the need exists. That said, our rotos are generally small compared to the total number of people in the CAF and before we send reservists out on compulsory service, one first needs to trim the system of all the cubicle rats, sick, lame and lazy that populate the establishment and fill the ranks to the authorized establishment levels and provide everyone, RegF and ResF, with the proper training and equipment.

I can't help but feel for today's members - and the sea boots issue is a graphic example of the systemic problem. The CF consists of little islands of professionalism and excellence floating on the surface of a pool of sludge. Some of the poorest third world countries have the ability to provide all of their members with the right personnel equipment while Canada can't even get a sleeping bag right anymore. It's downright embarrassing.

It's not time for the CF to get its act together; it's time to design a whole new act from the ground up where the ResF is empowered to play a dominant cost saving role..

 

[daftandbarmy]

And that's why Canada has a problem. The complete inability to think outside the box. 19 SOF deployed dozens of teams on op rotations to Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere during the GWoT. One of the stupidest things Canada does is have this ridiculous idea that reservists need to volunteer for operations - they can and should be placed on active service when the need exists. That said, our rotos are generally small compared to the total number of people in the CAF and before we send reservists out on compulsory service, one first needs to trim the system of all the cubicle rats, sick, lame and lazy that populate the establishment and fill the ranks to the authorized establishment levels and provide everyone, RegF and ResF, with the proper training and equipment.

I can't help but feel for today's members - and the sea boots issue is a graphic example of the systemic problem. The CF consists of little islands of professionalism and excellence floating on the surface of a pool of sludge. Some of the poorest third world countries have the ability to provide all of their members with the right personnel equipment while Canada can't even get a sleeping bag right anymore. It's downright embarrassing.

It's not time for the CF to get its act together; it's time to design a whole new act from the ground up where the ResF is empowered to play a dominant cost saving role..

Well, as you mentioned it, just to add to the whole 'boot thing'