Navy doing trials on new clothing???

[Disenchantedsailor]

Right,

      So baring getting rid of the NCD's altogether anybody have any ideas on how to improve  the care that goes into them, i.e. get the troops to press them, maybe attack the boots with a brush every now and then??

 

[Sub_Guy]

Getting sailors to press NCD's is a leadership issue.

Now do I think we should be creased up and starched at sea?  No.

But alongside there is no reason why most people don't press their NCD's.

So (IMHO) the only way to get that done is through excellent leadership.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

I'm thinking we're on the same wavelength on this one

 

[GreasyStoker]

Getting sailors to press NCD's is a leadership issue.

Now do I think we should be creased up and starched at sea?  No.

But alongside there is no reason why most people don't press their NCD's.

So (IMHO) the only way to get that done is through excellent leadership.

Some trade's jobs don't stop just because the boat comes alongside.
Ask most MSE folks to press their pants and prepare to be told what to do with your hat.

Unless you are talking about being up at the school/shore billet and more *visible*, in that case I agree with you.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

I'm leaning more toward walking in and out rig, really anytime you're in a position to contact the public, the ones that pay our saleries, so places like schools, offices, where you are likely to have contact with the public on a daily/near daily basis. The chances of a civillian "suit and tie" type coming into an office at Headquarters/Support buildings is fairly high, not so much in the bilge of a 280.

 

[TAS278]

I'm leaning more toward walking in and out rig, really anytime you're in a position to contact the public, the ones that pay our saleries, so places like schools, offices, where you are likely to have contact with the public on a daily/near daily basis. The chances of a civillian "suit and tie" type coming into an office at Headquarters/Support buildings is fairly high, not so much in the bilge of a 280.

I am sorry, I thought that way, maybe my first 3 years in but there is no reason why we can't wear our work dress/civilians in and out of the base. #1's #2'S will just give another watch for some poor RPO to stand and inspect people. Unless you are talking about not having enough things to screw up at work. We could add this...

 

[navymich]

Personally, I used to iron my NCDs all of the time.  But due to my position, I also had more time available to me to do so while at sea, as well.  I understood when my department wasn't able to.  They knew that I expected them to have them ironed for while we were alongside and any inspections etc.  But at sea, I relaxed on them.  However, it didn't mean that they looked like a bag of crap either.  If you take your NCDs out of the dryer as soon as they are done and hang them up, they look fine.  All it is, is putting a bit more effort into it.  And it doesn't take long to take a brush to the boots either to blacken them.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Airmich,

I've found doing it that way the shirts usually need some touch up, no big deal but the creases in the pants can last 3 weeks or so without taking an iron to them, and of course at sea is a much different story and some relaxation is warranted. As for TAS278 I wasn't thinking Ceremonial Dress (#1's) or Mess Dress (#2's) for walking out but a reasonably well turned out set of NCD's when leaving dockyard. It wasn't long ago we had to wear salt & peppers as walking out rig, no civis. I think the reason theres more civis than uniforms leaving at the end of the day is people have become ashamed of the uniform, I have wingers who won't even admit they're in the military. Taking pride in our kit is just the first step in preserving the military sub-society in Canada.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Some trade's jobs don't stop just because the boat comes alongside.
Ask most MSE folks to press their pants and prepare to be told what to do with your hat.

Unless you are talking about being up at the school/shore billet and more *visible*, in that case I agree with you.

Submariner here.  I get your point.  On ship is one thing, Tim Hortons is another.

You should not be seen struting around outside the confines of Dockyard/Naden looking like a bag of siht.

 

[TAS278]

Airmich,

I've found doing it that way the shirts usually need some touch up, no big deal but the creases in the pants can last 3 weeks or so without taking an iron to them, and of course at sea is a much different story and some relaxation is warranted. As for TAS278 I wasn't thinking Ceremonial Dress (#1's) or Mess Dress (#2's) for walking out but a reasonably well turned out set of NCD's when leaving dockyard. It wasn't long ago we had to wear salt & peppers as walking out rig, no civvies. I think the reason theres more civvies than uniforms leaving at the end of the day is people have become ashamed of the uniform, I have wingers who won't even admit they're in the military. Taking pride in our kit is just the first step in preserving the military sub-society in Canada.

Well the ashamed to be military thing sounds very far fetched to me. I recall the "Salt & Pepper" days. What happened with Civvies was 911. They didn't want military personnel being targeted. I had also heard something about some insurance issues while in uniform. While traveling to and from work you are considered to be at work and if injured, you will be compensated as such. But as that obviously sounds quite absurd while traveling home as you can easily stop for groceries and such they went to civvies optional.

But I still find it funny for someone to say they are ashamed.. they need to consider releasing from the forces. 

Anyhoo, someone who gets paid more than I do will figure out what is appropriate and what isn't.

What were we talking about again

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

In 1997 there was a white paper written based o the results of a forces wide survay that found the underlying factor in CF personel not wearing thier uniforms to and from work was related to a lack of pride, and shame. Likely due to the way the forces had been treated over the previous 10 years, CAR, Base Closures, Pay freezes, Defence cuts and the like. As for coverage to and from work, our contract of unlimited liability ensures we are on the clock all the time, including if we are gardening in our backyards, and yes I have heard people tell Ladies in a club they "work for the government" rather than in the military.  That said it is a leadership issue. at all levels, the only way to change it is probably from the bottom up and shame the supervisors into the whole uniforms to and from, lets face it, if we can't/wont take pride in ourselves how can we expect the rest of Canada to

 

[TAS278]

So wearinf our uniforms more often will allow us to build up morale?

 

[Prairie Sailor]

I find that personnel on ship tend to walk in/out in civilian clothes more than those posted ashore. Guys on the boat are more apt to get dirty doing ship's husbandry than those of us posted to a desk. As a result, instead of having another uniform to change into, it's easier to put on some civvies (then you don't have to change yet again when you get home). Lets not forget that there is still a standard for civvies as well. And as for the public eye, have you seen what some of these dockyard matees are wearing to and from work, and I don't mean the FMF guys, the desk jockeys are not the most respectably dressed people on the base.

As an aside I have yet to see the news paper article or the 5 o'clock news report on the dress habits of the CF, but...It could be

"The Canadian Navy, if they fight as bad as they look, we're in trouble...tonight at 10"

How about everybody gets coveralls like I don't know, every other Navy in the world...after a hard day working and getting dirty turn 'em insideout and off ya go...

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

When I was in Esquimalt.....posted out in 01 practically everyone was going ashore in civies from the ship. At Naden we were in DEU so went home that way, of course. I've never been ashamed of walking out in my uniform or anyone knowing that I'm a member of the CF. In fact I take a lot of pride in wearing it. Here is Halifax it looks like most people walk out in DEU at Stad or NCD from the Dockyard....no ball caps allowed when walking out of course.

Having said that there was an initiative a few years ago to try and encourage people to travel, ie fly in uniform and that was not roundly endorsed. I personally want to be comfortable when I travel....nothing to do with shame or pride. I want to sleep on a plane and sitting in one position for a long period of time tends to wrinkle the old uni-bag.

 

[cobbler]

Not going to coveralls   -----> lame (my opinion)

The RAN changing from coveralls back to two piece in the next few years = tragedy.

I love the ralls, to Canada I say get them and cherish them. They are gods gift to the Puss.

 

[M Feetham]

Here's my bit. As far as wearing NCD's to and from the ship, personally I would rather wear my salt and peppers, it just looks more professional. Like someone else said earlier,during the day people tend to get dirty while they are working around the ship. Along with boots that are paint splashed and worn thru at the toe. It just doesn't make for a proper military appearance. Yes I know that if the MSOD and the POOD are doing their job then most of these guys won't get off the brow, but when they don't have a change of clothes on board, what are you going to do, get some guy/girl to phone their better half and get them to bring in a fresh change of clothes from Sooke or Sackville. Not gonna happen. I know that most of the CPO's and above usually wear Salt and Pepper's to and from, I really don't see why the rest can't do the same and leave the NCD's for wear on the ship. I also don't have a problem with civvies if they are in good shape. I would rather that than NCD's.
Thanks.
Marc

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

For what its worth a few times when standing MSOD I turned guys back at the brow for looking like garbage, the Duty COXN, OOD, and the COXN all backed me on it too.

 

[M Feetham]

I have too, disenchanted, but the problem is that first not all MSOD's will turn people back, not all the POOD's will back you up unless the Cox'n is standing right behind him (which does happen now and then) and it always seems to be the same guys over and over again. It surprinsingly is not always the Bosn's or the Stokers however that look like a BoS. A lot of the time I have found it to be the OD/AB operators who just don't care. I blame that on poor leadership at the LS/MS level, myself included. Again though, I say the Salt and Peppes is much more profesionnal looking.
Marc

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Can't argue with that logic

 

[Springroll]

The S&P's are definitely more professional looking while us sailors are out in the public.
They are very comfortable, but a pain to have to dry clean every time you spill something on them.
The NCD's give us ladies major wedgies, well maybe not every one, but every one I have spoken to about them.

Bring on the coveralls!!