New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[MarkOttawa]

The start of a very interesting piece, by a project insider, at Vanguard magazine:

The RCN’s Joint Support Ship disaster
Henning Jacobsen

In late May, the Royal Canadian Navy paid off HMCS Protecteur, last of two remaining support ships [more here and see “RCN Joint Support Ship Stopgap: Feds Talking with Davie, Québec“]. Built in the 1960s, the Protecteur-class was expected to be replaced by 2012. At present, the government is working with Seaspan Shipyards to begin construction on two Joint Support Ships, to be known as the Queenston class. In the interim, however, it may have to consider a commercial alternative to bridge the gap between now and when new ships enter service in 2020. Henning Jacobsen served as a consultant on the initial Joint Support Ship Program that was cancelled in 2008. He argues the program to deliver a new support ship should never have reached this point…
http://www.vanguardcanada.com/2015/08/12/the-joint-support-ship-debacle/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Lumber]

The start of a very interesting piece, by a project insider, at Vanguard magazine:

Mark
Ottawa

So, what I understand from that article is that , 7 years ago, if the Canadian Government had agreed to increase spending on the JSS by 25% (from $2.9B to $3.7B), we would have had 3 of them by now? We just refused to listen to industry when they said "it just can't be done for the price you want?".

They even said "we can build two for that price" and we said "no". In the end, we are only building two.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The Queenstons will also be double hulled tankers as reqd by international law while the others are container ship conversions which may not meet the new laws and thus banned from many world ports.
Most of the worlds navys are getting rid of there single hulled AORs because of this. IE the RN and the fairly new AORs.

Actually, the Davie proposal will be double hulled. That is the reason they are working from a Container ship conversion instead of a tanker conversion. The required tanks will be built inside the existing hull and properly away from it, making it a double-hulled ship. Much simpler than trying to make a similar conversion on an existing tanker's tanks. For one thing, no need for any decontamination before you can start welding.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

So, what I understand from that article is that , 7 years ago, if the Canadian Government had agreed to increase spending on the JSS by 25% (from $2.9B to $3.7B), we would have had 3 of them by now? We just refused to listen to industry when they said "it just can't be done for the price you want?".

They even said "we can build two for that price" and we said "no". In the end, we are only building two.

Bingo! Give that man a cigar :dude:

 

[Lumber]

Bingo! Give that man a cigar :dude:

I'll take imaginary internet (MP) points as well. 

 

[jmt18325]

The Queenstons will also be double hulled tankers as reqd by international law while the others are container ship conversions which may not meet the new laws and thus banned from many world ports.
Most of the worlds navys are getting rid of there single hulled AORs because of this. IE the RN and the fairly new AORs.

A tank inside of a sealed ship hull should qualify and double hulled.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Tweet:

@Murray_Brewster

Curious no mention of #RCN's supply ships by PMSH at today's campaign event at dock where they are supposed to be built. #elxn42
https://twitter.com/Murray_Brewster/status/631562910221758464

Mark
Ottawa

 

[jmt18325]

Tweet:

Mark
Ottawa

I really hope they're smart enough to not go through with that. 

 

[MarkOttawa]

Davie AOR conversion tweet:

OMX ‏@offsetmarket

@chantierdavie unveils impressive #ProjectResolve website: projectresolve.ca
INNOVATIVE, AFFORDABLE, 100% CANADIAN.
The Navy / La Marine, Canadian Forces, Jason Kenney ن and 2 others

https://twitter.com/offsetmarket/status/632596663895498752

Hull of course not actually Canadian:
http://www.vanguardcanada.com/2015/08/11/davie-to-give-capital-ship-a-royal-makeover/

Plot thought that maybe some with influence may have:

1) Ditch Seaspan JSS and give Davie 2/3 AOR conversions;

2) Give Seaspan one or two more new icebreakers, CCGS Diefenbreaker itself to start building much sooner.

Political winner, regardless which party forms government after next election?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[PuckChaser]

Its not going to be a quick decision, that's not gonna be something covered under the caretaker provisions.

 

[jmt18325]

Does anyone have any idea what the tonnage on this ship will be?  I have a hard time seeing the RCN giving this up even if they get the JSS in the end. 

 

[Underway]

Does anyone have any idea what the tonnage on this ship will be?  I have a hard time seeing the RCN giving this up even if they get the JSS in the end. 

Currently Asterix is about 18200 tonnes without the cargo.  I don't know what she's rated for but thats a place to start.  I wouldn't be surprised that after conversions full load she's about 25000-30000...

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The Asterix class has about 24,000 tons deadweight.

Some of that will go for all the mods made to the ship, but I would not be surprised if she ended up with about the same or a little more cargo capacity than the PROTECTEUR class, so about 16,000+ tons of cargo.

That would put her at about 38,000/39,000 tons full load.

As for giving up the capacity by the RCN, it depends on the contract. If they don't have a purchase clause at a set price at the end of the lease, then she goes back to Davie. And Davie may not want to sell her to the RCN in the end, if they feel they can make more money by then selling her on the open market (after all, I think everybody knows the RCN crew take very good care of the toys they are given - much better than many other nations - but then again, we usually get to play with our toys much longer than anybody else).

 

[jollyjacktar]

My boss says she will be in the 40 range.

 

[jmt18325]

So it will be, in its intended role, more capable than the JSS, it seems.

 

[jmt18325]

The project resolve page emphasizes a flexible service contract.  It sounds like they're gunning to keep this ship in service, even when/if the JSS comes to fruition.

 

[jollyjacktar]

So it will be, in its intended role, more capable than the JSS, it seems.

Not necessarily.  As a. retrofit merchant she may be lacking some capabilities.

 

[Good2Golf]

22-24k DWT and  14-16k Tare sounds about right if you figure 4-6k for RAS gear, reefer plant, tanks and plumbing, and hangars...sound like 38-40k full up.

 

[jmt18325]

Not necessarily.  As a. retrofit merchant she may be lacking some capabilities.

Their primary role is to refuel and resupply.  It seems that this ship would do that better.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Their primary role is to refuel and resupply.  It seems that this ship would do that better.

Are you a Davie Lobbyist?  You are pushing this awful hard.  :

We are getting the Berlin's.  This ship is a stopgap, nothing more.

Also what justification can you provide that a secondhand coverted container ship is going to do a "better" job than a custom built warship already in use by another Navy?  It's stupid comments like this that make me question how qualified you are to speak on this issue.

Then again, opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one.