So You Want to be Charles Atlas

[Fusaki]

I think everyone should know how to and properly perform the squat, deadlift and overhead press.

For what purpose? 

Simply, these are the fewest movements that affect the widest range of muscle groups.  Unlike bodyweight exercises, which build endurance, lifting heavy in these three exercises will increase strength and power, and they are better at strengthening ligaments and increasing bone density.  They will make you more resistant to injury, and you won't develop the same kind of excess mass that is typically associated with bodybuilding.

People above have talked about strength training vs crossfit, but the systems don't conflict. This kind of strength training makes up a full third of crossfit programming, with the other two thirds being work capacity and endurance. Mark Rippetoe, the world class strength coach mentioned above, was one of the driving forces behind Crossfit (before a falling out with Greg Glassman).  Most crossfitters agree that strength training is the most important component of crossfit, and being strong benefits other areas of fitness, but not necessarily the other way around. I heard about Rippetoe's program through doing crossfit, and now I've been doing Rippetoe's program to get better at crossfit.

 

[PMedMoe]

Wonderbread, thanks for the explanation.

 

[ballz]

People above have talked about strength training vs crossfit, but the systems don't conflict. This kind of strength training makes up a full third of crossfit programming

"These are high-intensity high-speed workouts that have a large strength component to them."

I would just like to point out that I wasn't one of those people. I said I didn't know enough about Crossfit to have an informed opinion of whether it's any good or not.

 

[Fusaki]

After reading through all this garbage, I really just have 2 questions for Kratos:

1. You seem to talk like a pro, but have not listed any qualifications other than "I do this all the time", to make me or believe any of your rants.
2. If you don't want to join the CF, nor have been in it in the past, how do you know exactly what we need to be fit to fight?

If I may...

What the CF "needs" is always open to debate. But...

Kratos' advice is right in line with what I know about fitness.  It seems like stymiest, coming off his Phase 3, agrees with him (more or less) as well.  This is not old school run/ruck/run/ruck PT.  This is not bodybuilding, either.  This is a modern approach to strength training.

I personally believe this kind of training should form the basis of military fitness, and then be combined with other exercises to produce well rounded tactical athletes.  These compound lifts will make soldiers strong and durable first, and then the benefits will carry over to the development of work capacity, speed, stamina, and endurance.

 

[PuckChaser]

I will definitely agree that the CF needs to look at how we do physical fitness. Kratos very well may be right, but right now it looks like the ramblings from the outside looking in. Being a CF member, I would be more inclined to follow something you're saying, especially being in a Cmbt Arms trade requiring excellent physical abilities, because you've been there. Even with just a few weblinks tossed in as sources, I'd be interested in hearing more, especially since I've had difficulty trying to get into a strength training regimen that actually works, instead of wasting an hour in the gym using a few machines and hoping I'm doing it right.

 

[Ascendant]

After reading through all this garbage, I really just have 2 questions for Kratos:

1. You seem to talk like a pro, but have not listed any qualifications other than "I do this all the time", to make me or believe any of your rants.
2. If you don't want to join the CF, nor have been in it in the past, how do you know exactly what we need to be fit to fight?

I don't talk like a pro. I never step outside the boundaries of my knowledge.

Qualifications, none. I could go take an $80, one day course to get "certified", though...

That's fine if you don't believe me.

Strength + endurance would seem to be a pretty good guess.

Low rep training = Strength, with (depending on your diet) little, if any size gain. Low rep training will also be much easier to recover from and cause less soreness, allowing you to still do intense cardio and muscle conditioning afterward.

 

[Ascendant]

I will definitely agree that the CF needs to look at how we do physical fitness. Kratos very well may be right, but right now it looks like the ramblings from the outside looking in. Being a CF member, I would be more inclined to follow something you're saying, especially being in a Cmbt Arms trade requiring excellent physical abilities, because you've been there. Even with just a few weblinks tossed in as sources, I'd be interested in hearing more, especially since I've had difficulty trying to get into a strength training regimen that actually works, instead of wasting an hour in the gym using a few machines and hoping I'm doing it right.

Take a look at the Stronglifts 5x5 program or Starting Strength.

 

[1feral1]

I'm not looking to join the military anymore.

It really doesn't fit with my lifestyle, passions or interests. No sense in trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Good.

You were quite keen until 18 days ago when you got rejected (post no. 27 of your posting history).

Individuals with attitudes fail and weaken a team environment anyways.

 

[Ascendant]

Good.

You were quite keen until 18 days ago when you got rejected (post no. 27 of your posting history).

Individuals with attitudes fail and weaken a team environment anyways.

You're right, I did not get accepted to for ROTP. I put down one trade that interested me (apparently one with a large amount of people vying for it), and even then, I was almost relieved when I got rejected. I was never really that keen and certainly not after I realized I'd be doing something I wasn't passionate about. It became very clear to me that I simply wasn't willing to make the necessary sacrifices needed to join the military.

Thank you for your informed opinion on my attitude and team member qualities, though.

 

[Fusaki]

Good.

You were quite keen until 18 days ago when you got rejected (post no. 27 of your posting history).

Individuals with attitudes fail and weaken a team environment anyways.

The quality of a thread is what you make of it.

 

[SevenSixTwo]

If I may...

What the CF "needs" is always open to debate. But...

Kratos' advice is right in line with what I know about fitness.  It seems like stymiest, coming off his Phase 3, agrees with him (more or less) as well.  This is not old school run/ruck/run/ruck PT.  This is not bodybuilding, either.  This is a modern approach to strength training.

I personally believe this kind of training should form the basis of military fitness, and then be combined with other exercises to produce well rounded tactical athletes.  These compound lifts will make soldiers strong and durable first, and then the benefits will carry over to the development of work capacity, speed, stamina, and endurance.

Semi-on topic here: Did anyone else see that article on military.com about how the U.S. Military is "killing" the old physical fitness system? Ex) They are getting rid of jogging for sprint intervals (no one jogs on the battlefield).

For the life of me I can't find the article at the moment.

 

[mariomike]

Semi-on topic here: Did anyone else see that article on military.com about how the U.S. Military is "killing" the old physical fitness system? Ex) They are getting rid of jogging for sprint intervals (no one jogs on the battlefield).
For the life of me I can't find the article at the moment.

Is this it?:
http://www.military.com/military-fitness/law-enforcement-training/need-for-speed-and-endurance

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

If I may...

What the CF "needs" is always open to debate. But...

Kratos' advice is right in line with what I know about fitness.  It seems like stymiest, coming off his Phase 3, agrees with him (more or less) as well.  This is not old school run/ruck/run/ruck PT.  This is not bodybuilding, either.  This is a modern approach to strength training.

I personally believe this kind of training should form the basis of military fitness, and then be combined with other exercises to produce well rounded tactical athletes.  These compound lifts will make soldiers strong and durable first, and then the benefits will carry over to the development of work capacity, speed, stamina, and endurance.

Love it Wonderbread, you just nailed it on the head, and you used my favorite word "tactical athlete"

I draw my conclusions on this topic from what I have seen in the training system so far but I also draw it from two years of Ontario University Athletics experience playing rugby as well as high level ice hockey, and martial arts training.  When I played varsity rugby we were very fortunate to have a professional kinesiologist assigned to our team, training programs were devloped, I spent the entire off season following different exercise routines.  This taught me alot about how to train and how to train properly.

Soldiers are Athlete's, and the Canadian Forces in my opinion needs to start treating them as such, this is going to take some time but I believe that we would see some major benefits if we adopted modern training methods within the military.

 

[Trackman]

I haven't done any Military courses at this point and I don't know what kind of fitness you would need.  But I can tell you if you do decide to do a weight training program, try to stick to relevant exercises.  Otherwise, you're better off running hills and doing general strength exercises.  For the majority of you, I would suggest general strength exercises first since it seems like there are few who have been lifting weights long enough to understand which lifts are most beneficial.  As far as general strength exercises go, you can find plenty on the internet.  If I were to post a page of the names them, you would still be better off searching the internet and finding how they're done.  And if you do decide to go straight to weights, stick to dumbbells for the first while.  And stay away from the machines, useless.  EDIT: Like scottyg suggested...  oh and never forget lower body.  If you leave you're lower body out of your workouts, you are doing yourself no favors.

 

[DiamondDarryl]

Ok, there is a right way to train and a wrong way. If your "fitness" goals include standing on stage in a speedo with a spray tan then by all means follow scotty's advice. If not then Kratos's advice is bang on.

Far too many posters on this thread have the wrong idea of what fitness is. The minimum physical requirements for the CF are a joke and it really is a shame that more people are not as serious about training as Kratos or Scotty, regardless of whose right.  Push ups, sit ups, and running is good and all, but can only take you so far. They are a good indicator of strength and endurance against your body weight but that's about it. I'm sick of seeing kids show up to the battalion unable to flip LAV tires or carry more then one A-frame at a time. Strength is not relative, there is only CAN and CAN NOT.

 

[Trackman]

Ok, there is a right way to train and a wrong way. If your "fitness" goals include standing on stage in a speedo with a spray tan then by all means follow scotty's advice. If not then Kratos's advice is bang on.

Far too many posters on this thread have the wrong idea of what fitness is. The minimum physical requirements for the CF are a joke and it really is a shame that more people are not as serious about training as Kratos or Scotty, regardless of whose right.  Push ups, sit ups, and running is good and all, but can only take you so far. They are a good indicator of strength and endurance against your body weight but that's about it. I'm sick of seeing kids show up to the battalion unable to flip LAV tires or carry more then one A-frame at a time. Strength is not relative, there is only CAN and CAN NOT.

I strongly disagree, and honestly I would have to say you're one of those people you've addressed.  I tend to only read and post only when I have questions, but I felt the need to reply to a post because for once, I do know the topic very well.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

dude have you read any of the previous pages of posts, we have been talking about functional fitness for the military

I thought DiamondDarryl's post was bang on

 

[Ascendant]

I strongly disagree, and honestly I would have to say you're one of those people you've addressed.  I tend to only read and post only when I have questions, but I felt the need to reply to a post because for once, I do know the topic very well.

You say yourself you have done no courses, yet you disagree?

If you can run do push ups and sit ups for days, but can't lift/drag/push/etc something moderately heavy, is that alright?

DiamondDarryl seems to be speaking from experience, which holds a bit more weight. (No pun intended.)

 

[Trackman]

You say yourself you have done no courses, yet you disagree?

If you can run do push ups and sit ups for days, but can't lift/drag/push/etc something moderately heavy, is that alright?

DiamondDarryl seems to be speaking from experience, which holds a bit more weight. (No pun intended.)

When I last read DiamondDarryl's post, it seemed like he was talking about fitness.  Sorry but I didn't know the general concept of fitness is altered once you enter into the military.  My general understanding about these courses is that the mental aspect of it is what makes it so difficult.  Therefore if the advice had been about what general mindset you should aim to preserve throughout a course, I would accept it with no arguments in most cases.  But this isn't the case right now.  This thread is about fitness.  There a numerous ways to go about it.  From personal experience as a national athlete, I assure you I am much more experienced when it comes to fitness and general weight programs that the majority of the posters and/or readers.  And actually, during a cycle of my training, I did only run, and all weightless exercises.  And guess what, I can most likely squat and clean twice more than most people here and promise my bench isn't far behind.  So your argument makes no sense.  If you run, and add general strength exercises(primarily weightless), you will be able lift/drag/push something moderately heavy.  Perhaps you should think about which area of experience is really relevant for this thread addressing fitness and weight programs.

EDIT: I left out my 2 rep maxes for those lifts. 245 cleans, 455 squat, but that was 3x5, haven't maxed for a while, and 265 bench.  I weigh 185.  Don't believe me, pm me if you are in Ottawa and I'll gladly show you.  Oh, and pushups and situps during offseason, 49 and 46.  Much better now though, and I can prove that too.  But those were my first official PT test results.
EDIT#2: Y.O.B.: 1990

 

[Trackman]

I apologize then.  I only brought what I could do in an attempt to defend myself quickly.  Regardless of how conceded it may be.  Anyway I'll stay out of this thread.  But don't be clouded by the notion that you can't develop a mixture of strength and fitness without touching weights for the majority of your workout.  This may be the best way to begin and a workout strategy that should not only be used at the beginning, but throughout the period of time you workout over the years.  Anyways, I apologize again and really hope you all find what works best.