The Michael Moore Super Thread- Merged

[muskrat89]

LOL - you'll notice that nbk is always preaching that people should "think for themselves" but doesn't mind trying to sell his point of view...or will defend some people's right to have an opinion, but not others...


Anyway, I posted that site because I thought it was funny. I think they are making a point in a satirical light, more than they actually expect Michael Moore to be charged....

 

[muskrat89]

From the CBC article provided by Clasper:

You've got four days after it opens, to get people out to the polls to make sure that Mr. Harper doesn't become your next prime minister," he said.

So you are saying that the CBC "put words in his mouth", but the Toronto Star got it right? Just curious...

 

[Kirkhill]

Much as I am tempted to support the petition Michael Moore thrives on attention.

Do we really want to give him oxygen?

 

[SFontaine]

Umm, how are you going to charge/imprison someone who is not a Canadian citizen, and resides in another country?

You could charge S_baker (If he is in fact an american) or any other non Canadian on these boards who chimed in on the elections as well.

This is pretty pathetic....shame on him for having an opinion...

EDIT: Found an artice about it http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/analysiscommentary/columns/danbrown220604.html

Moore was in this country last week for the film's official Canadian premiere. He said that he pushed to have the movie released here before June 28, apparently over the protests of domestic distributors, who didn't want it to interfere with the federal vote.

"And I said, no, no, no. Even if it's just four days before the election, you've got to get something out there to inspire people to do the right thing here," Moore told the Toronto Star on Saturday. By doing the right thing, Moore means that Canadians should not vote for Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, who Moore believes is a Bush toady intent on slashing the social safety net.

Hmmm looks like Moore just asked people to "do the right thing" and was not "...in any way induce[ing] electors to vote or refrain from voting for a particular candidate..." The journalist put words into his mouth.

Again, this is a really pathetic petition, and shows how little ammunition people have when trying to discredit Moore or make him look bad.

Ahahahaha. Dude we have 2 movies and a big ol book.. We have more than enough ammo to discredit the man.

 

[Harris936]

Yo nbk,

Umm, how are you going to charge/imprison someone who is not a Canadian citizen, and resides in another country?

        You make a good point, that would be tricky. But consider this, Canada has an extradition treaty with the US.
Also, if he ever enters Canada again (say to promote more of his commie propaganda) he could be arrested. My hope is that the threat of charges will teach him a lesson and maybe keep him from entering the country again.

Best Regards,
Harris 

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Well, at least 981 of us think this is not "pathetic'

Not that I think anything will come of this, but it is nice to make an opinion known.

nbk, why don't you start your own petition against this petition - see how far it gets you.

 

[nbk]

LOL - you'll notice that nbk is always preaching that people should "think for themselves" but doesn't mind trying to sell his point of view...or will defend some people's right to have an opinion, but not others...

Thats because everybody is after Moore. I have alterior, unique views because there needs to be balance, not everyone should be thinking the same all the time. If everyone supported Moore, I would be pointing out any flaws he had, if I could find any. Thats the type of person I am. I restore balance and order to the universe. You dare oppose the workings of the very universe? Tisk tisk...

From the CBC article provided by Clasper:

You've got four days after it opens, to get people out to the polls to make sure that Mr. Harper doesn't become your next prime minister," he said.

So you are saying that the CBC "put words in his mouth", but the Toronto Star got it right? Just curious...

He's not saying "Don't vote for Harper" if you read his words in that article hes saying that Canadians should take in to consideration what electing Harper would mean to the country. And don't accuse me of putting words into his mouth, because if you read the whole article, not just the quote you took, that is what he is saying. He is not trying to sway people from voting for harper, he is just saying what a conservative government would do to the country.

As well neither of these articles mentions that he had made comments about the liberal party and they had their own problems that people should "consider".

You make a good point, that would be tricky. But consider this, Canada has an extradition treaty with the US.
Also, if he ever enters Canada again (say to promote more of his commie propaganda) he could be arrested. My hope is that the threat of charges will teach him a lesson and maybe keep him from entering the country again.

I'm fairly sure they would not extradite someone for what is probably the most petty and insignificant crime in the entire criminal code. Especially since you could not possibly bend his words around enough to make it look like he was particularly condemning the government currently in power. So why would the government currently in power want to punish him?

"Keep him from entering the country again"??? You speak out against ze conservatives? Vere are your papers, bitte? Show us ze papers! Kein papers? Your access to ze Reich has been denied. Oberstleutnant, ezcort zis man out of ze land.

Well, at least 981 of us think this is not "pathetic'

Not that I think anything will come of this, but it is nice to make an opinion known.

nbk, why don't you start your own petition against this petition - see how far it gets you.

As long as its not my opinion, right?

It would not make any sense for me to make a petition because my whole argument was that the idea of a petition was pathetic, so making a petition would be equally pathetic.

 

[clasper]

He's not saying "Don't vote for Harper"

Actually that's pretty much exactly what he's saying.  It's quite clear he committed an offence of the Canada Elections Act.  I appreciate the contrariness of your views, but you're grasping at semantic straws here.

But why stop at Michael Moore.  With the pervasiveness of American media in Canada, why don't we charge all of those American right wing wackos that used liberal as a dirty word during our election campaign?  So what if they said "liberal" and not "Liberal"?  They're influencing politics in Canada, right?

You can make many arguments that a lot of Americans influenced the Canadian campaign, and yes they broke the letter of the law.  But this petition?  Just going to give Moore the publicity he thrives on.  The reactionary right did way more to promote Moore's film than he did.

 

[Danjanou]

"Keep him from entering the country again"??? You speak out against ze conservatives? Vere are your papers, bitte? Show us ze papers! Kein papers? Your access to ze Reich has been denied. Oberstleutnant, ezcort zis man out of ze land.

NBK even by your "normal" Shit Disturbing attitudes this takes the case.


Edit" hmmm look what the auto censor substituted for s---.

 

[nULL]

He showed more responsiblity than 40% of the population by even voting.

Good for him.

 

[Alex]

I used to be a lot like nbk. Sure, it's his opinion, but hardly anyone i know can take his movies with a grain of salt. Take Bowling for Columbine. The interview with the guy who supposedly helped Timothy McVeigh- obviously Michael Moore's opinion is going to look sooooo much better when he's debating with an uneducated guy who's probably pretty crazy. I also don't approve of him interfering in our election either- he can have his opinion, but when he tries to scare Canadian citizens into not voting for the conservatives.. that's none of his business. And most recently, one of my friends, who was going to join the reserves, was scared out of joining after seeing ferhenheit 911. Needless to say I've been persuading her since to reconsider.. she doesn't realize just what Michael Moore is. For me, when he starts persuading people to not want to serve their country, that is going to far.

On another note, I heard there was a documentary being made to counter Michael Moore's arguments. I can't wait for it to come out.

 

[Harris936]

"I'm fairly sure they would not extradite someone for what is probably the most petty and insignificant crime in the entire criminal code. Especially since you could not possibly bend his words around enough to make it look like he was particularly condemning the government currently in power. So why would the government currently in power want to punish him?
"Keep him from entering the country again"??? You speak out against ze conservatives? Vere are your papers, bitte? Show us ze papers! Kein papers? Your access to ze Reich has been denied. Oberstleutnant, ezcort zis man out of ze land."




             I wouldn't consider it a petty and insignificant crime at all. Afterall, a general federal election is very important.
I don't know why you're trying to liken my to a Nazi. That doesn't make sense for a number of reasons.

First off, what type of totalitarian state would deny somone entry to their country for attacking an opposition party? (Do true totalitarian states even have opposition parties? In Germany they were one of the first things Hitler got rid off)

Secondly, my advocacy that Moore be charged has nothing to do with the fact that he attacked the Tories. It would be the same if he went after the Grits or NDP. I simply can't believe the nerve of that man to come into this country and violate our laws by telling us how to vote.

Thirdly, all I'm doing is supporting the rule of law. That is, I wish to see the law applied equally to all. The rule of law was something conspicuously absent in Nazi Germany, and all totalitarian states.

Please take the time to consider these objections.

Regards,
Harris  

 

[spenco]

Check out this article.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/07/14/moore_elxn040714.html

 

[Scratch_043]

#1884, I came in a little late.

 

[MissMolsonIndy]

Head over here for an example of Moore getting destroyed, and his claims being proven wrong. The guy is a hack who makes up a bunch of shit to try and further his agenda.. And sadly people believe it.

No more, no less than any other media organization.

Let me apply a double standard to this topic of debate: those who full-heartedly argue that Michael Moore disinforms the public, and uses propaganda as a means to further his own agenda, yet refute the idea that CNN, and other U.S. media conglomerates are perpetrators of the exact same crime, different agenda.

So long as profit is a driving force of the mass media, and the media continues to be concentrated in the hands of a small proportion of private ownership, how can one ever fully be assured he/she is getting truly objective news? All mass media has some form of a spin on it.

Draw from multiple sources, including mainstream and alternative, and use them to formulate your own opinions on the matter.

Do not selectively point the finger at Michael Moore, when the media that comes through your television set at 6 o'clock and 11 o'clock respectively, is furthering an agenda of their own as well.

Sadly, people buy into everything they hear on the news as well...

 

[MissMolsonIndy]

Mr. Moore....
Please keep your ideological crap on your side of the border you fat, no all, waste of human flesh.

Reading through the posts, the only valid points that the many of you have made is that Michael Moore is overweight, and fosters ideological beliefs that the majority of you disagree with.

Don't use personal slander to discredit him, that's foolish. Instead, provide examples and evidence in an effort to disprove his logic and credibility.

 

[Donaill]

I agree with much of what is said on this post taht is pro MM or neutral towards him. He is very good at getting his point across to people. He does have alot of charisma. I dont have anything new to add so I will just restate some of the points that I agree with :

1- Moore uses propaganda in the same way that the right wing does.

2- Moore uses sarcasm and other word play to get his point across.

I have read much of what Moore writes and I have seen the docudramas that he has released. I do believe that his train of thought does lay along the lines of the "little guy". To judge the guy now that he has found success and find him less then worthy is a stereotypical Canadian thing to do.

 

[MissMolsonIndy]

Moore uses sarcasm and other word play to get his point across.

You bet, and this definitely isn't something specific to Michael Moore. Most politicians, film makers and others trying to appeal to the public execute a play on words in order to gain credibility and support:

The United States did not invade Iraq, it liberated Iraq.

He/she is not a terrorist he/she is a freedom fighter/revolutionary.

Candidates ranging anywhere from left, right and all that is inbetween are guilty of this.

 

[Donaill]

Ahh yes. Propaganda and the media. It is funny how over the years the definition of terrorism has changed. Now before anyone jumps on me I do agree that what happened on 9/11 was terrorism. However...
For as long as I can remember the IRA has been pinned as terrorists. They were found guilty of many atrocities. Now I do not agree with much of the tactics they used, hiding bombs in public areas , etc. I do agree that the Catholics of Ulster were treated badly. That many innocent peopel were sent to prison in the name of English security. We have just lately found out that England also paid many Protestant para-militaries to carry out killings for the goverment/military. This is all part of the public record.

My point in this rely is that propaganda and the media can either play up or play down events according to what will get them higher ratings or more goverment influence.  Moore is no different. He does the same thing to gain more influence with the working class people.  I can relate to Moore. I cannot relate to J.D. Irving or Prince Chucky.
Until the human race grows up and finally decides that everyone should be treated fairly than we should not sit back and tell people like Moore to it down and shut up.

 

[FredDaHead]

I love my country of birth, so much so that I joined it's military, so I could help protect it. I suspect that he also loves his country, seeing as how he still lives there (I assume). Maybe, just maybe, he is pointing out what he thinks is wrong with it, in the hopes that it might improve. You know, a place where people are free to say what they want, without being called a fat f%$$ in public forums, having their loyalty questioned. Just because you question the direction your country is going in doesn't mean that you are a traitor.

There is a difference between questionning the direction your country is going, and making up "facts" and viciously attacking the government with those half-truths and lies. And did it cross your mind that he might still live there just so he can make more ficticious movies that get a "non-fiction" label, and make millions while pretending to be out for the little guy? Being from a mostly blue-collar background, I feel no kind of relation between me and that guy, and neither do a lot of my blue-collar friends.

The only people who really like that guy are bourgeois who think it's cool to "fight for the little guy."

Rick Mercer does some of the same things that Michael Moore does, in a humorous way, and nobody questions his patriotism. Quite the opposite. One thing that grates on me about him is the way he constantly infers that all Americans are stupid, with his little series of "interviews" with Americans about Canada. Yes, many Americans have no clue about us, but in the same way some Canadians have no clue about Germany, for example.

First, I don't see how Rick Mercer's humorous rants even begins to compare with Moore's slandering. The former comments, the latter attacks. Moore doesn't try to make people laugh, he tries to undermine the government and generally is an asshole. Rick Mercer makes fun of just about everyone and everything, too, and that's a HUGE difference between him and Moore.

As for Americans not knowing about Canada being the same as Canadians not knowing about Germany, that's an aweful comparison. The bulk of US and Canadian import/export is with each other, our governments seem to want us to be as close as possible, we have a special relationship, military-wise (NORAD), and we have a long history together. Basically, the US is Canada's sibling, like it or not.

Do we share that with Germany? The only thing I can find about Germany through a short research, is that 3 German-owned merchant marine ships have Canadian flags "for convenience." Wow, that makes them like our brothers, doesn't it?