The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[AlexanderM]

If the $15-19B replaces the previous $9B budget for initial purchase, including upgrades to airfields, maintenance facilities, etc, but not operating budget, then that would be a more realistic figure. It would allow us to purchase a more advanced version of the Super Hornet, or F-35's, or Rafales should the Liberals decide we can no longer work with the Americans.

 

[Journeyman]

......should the Liberals decide we can no longer work with the Americans.

  :rofl: 

 

[AlexanderM]

Ya, let's wait and see how NFTA negotiations work out before we laugh too hard.

 

[Loachman]

Sadly, the "interim" fighter issue does not seem to have gone away as it should have:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/international-business/canada-pushing-ahead-with-stopgap-fighter-plan-rules-out-lease/articleshow/59074415.cms

Canada pushing ahead with stopgap fighter plan, rules out lease

Reuters | Jun 9, 2017, 09.15 PM IST

By David Ljunggren

OTTAWA, June 9 (Reuters) - Canada is pressing ahead with plans to buy an interim fleet of 18 fighters, the country's top soldier told Reuters, speaking amid tensions with the United States that could derail a proposed deal with Boeing Co.

General Jonathan Vance, chief of the defense staff general, said the armed forces needed the jets as a stopgap measure while Canada prepares a competition to buy a fleet of 88 new planes, a process scheduled to take five years.

"There is a capability gap," he said in an interview late on Thursday. "There is a gap, and it needs to be filled."

Canada's fleet of 77 CF-18s, some of which are almost 40 years old, is coming to the end of its operational life.

Ottawa said last year it wanted to buy 18 Boeing Super Hornets as an interim measure but has since threatened to scrap the plan unless the U.S. company drops an anti-dumping challenge against Canadian planemaker Bombardier Inc.

Vance declined to comment on the dispute.

Critics say it makes little sense to buy fighters that might be only used for a short period. Vance dismissed the idea of leasing the fleet.

"One cannot lease fighters," he said.

Should Canada decide not to acquire the Boeing planes as a stopgap measure, it could order from Lockheed Martin Corp , Dassault Aviation SA or Airbus SE.

Depending on Canada's choice for the permanent fleet, this could result in the Royal Canadian Air Force operating two different kinds of modern jets at the same time, a prospect that did not worry Vance.

"Why is it so odd that the RCAF would be operating two fleets?" he said. "We used to operate three, four fleets."

Canada says the 88 new planes must be interoperable with those used by allies such as the United States. The importance of working seamlessly with the Americans means Canada is likely to buy U.S. jets for the permanent fleet, people familiar with the matter have previously told Reuters.

Vance said this was not a fair assumption.

Canada on Wednesday announced a major increase in defense spending after Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland said the nation would have to play a larger global role as the United States retreats.

Vance said Canada's close military ties with the United States would remain intact.

"Our relationship is incredibly tight, necessarily so and usefully so," he said, "and it stays that way." (Reporting by David Ljunggren; Editing by Denny Thomas and Lisa Von Ahn)

(This story has not been edited by timesofindia.com and is auto–generated from a syndicated feed we subscribe to.)

 

[Kirkhill]

"One cannot lease fighters," he said.

"F-16 Lease Deal Approved
(Source : New Zealand Ministry of Defence)


The Ministry of Defence has been given approval to sign a lease agreement with the United States for 28 F-16A/B strike aircraft, the Minister of Defence Max Bradford announced today.
; The Ministry has negotiated two five-year leases with the US Government costing NZ$124.8 million (excluding GST) for the entire fleet of 28 aircraft, with an option to buy them at the end of the 10-year lease period, or at any time in between. These costs are the same as those announced last December when Cabinet approved the 'lease in principle.'"

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/515/f_16-lease-deal-approved.html

Italy to extend Lockheed Martin F-16 lease deal

31 OCTOBER, 2008 SOURCE: FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL BY: PINO MODOLA -
Italy's defence ministry is negotiating an 18-month extension to a lease contract for about half of its F-16ADF fighters, say Lockheed Martin officials.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/italy-to-extend-lockheed-martin-f-16-lease-deal-318148/


http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/2016/01/05/slovak-defense-ministry-eyes-gripen-lease-deal-after-election/78307514/
http://www.airforce-technology.com/news/newssaab-contracted-for-gripen-lease-extension-in-czech-republic-4467566
http://aviationweek.com/defense/hungary-extends-gripen-lease-2026

http://australianaviation.com.au/2014/02/bae-to-offer-eurofighter-lease-to-malaysia/

Facts.....peculiar things.

And are fighters any more at risk than tanks?  Both from wear and tear and combat?

https://www.thestar.com/news/2007/04/03/canada_to_lease_tanks_for_afghanistan_source.html
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/171810/dutch-army-soldiers-serve-in-leased-german-tanks.html

Or RPAS's?

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/canada-contracts-for-heron-uavs-05024/




Maybe, somebody with a spare 1999 UKP available, could buy this report.

https://www.visiongain.com/Report/1688/Military-Leasing-Market-Report-2016-2026

"MILITARY LEASING MARKET REPORT 2016-2026
Global Analysis & Forecasts for Naval Vessels (Destroyers, Tankers, Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPV) & Other), Manned Aircraft (Fighters, Bombers, Logistics, Carriers, Refuelling & Other.), Ground Platforms (Combat, Transportation, Logistics, Communications Platforms & Other), Unmanned Systems (UAVs, UGVs, UMVs) & Other Markets: Opportunities for Leading Defence & Civilian Companies"

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

I hope he gets publicly blasted for that lease comment - that's a bald faced lie and he knows it.

 

[Underway]

I hope he gets publicly blasted for that lease comment - that's a bald faced lie and he knows it.

Maybe he doesn't know it (therein its not a lie).  He's an army guy answering a question that he probably wasn't prepared for.  I wouldn't be surprised that his corporate knowledge doesn't exactly extend the minutia of international fighter leasing prospects. Perhaps he should have just said that is currently not an option we are looking at, or that there are currently no fighters available for lease etc...

But yah he should be questioned in the press about that.  Or perhaps all the pressure should be on the gov't to come up with a legitimate solution if interim fighters are appropriate.  Used F-18's from one of the countries switching over to F-35's could be looked at (Australia for example).

 

[Kirkhill]

Maybe he doesn't know it (therein its not a lie).  He's an army guy answering a question that he probably wasn't prepared for.  I wouldn't be surprised that his corporate knowledge doesn't exactly extend the minutia of international fighter leasing prospects. Perhaps he should have just said that is currently not an option we are looking at, or that there are currently no fighters available for lease etc...

But yah he should be questioned in the press about that.  Or perhaps all the pressure should be on the gov't to come up with a legitimate solution if interim fighters are appropriate.  Used F-18's from one of the countries switching over to F-35's could be looked at (Australia for example).

I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.  As you say, commerce is not his first calling.

 

[suffolkowner]

Maybe he doesn't know it (therein its not a lie).  He's an army guy answering a question that he probably wasn't prepared for.  I wouldn't be surprised that his corporate knowledge doesn't exactly extend the minutia of international fighter leasing prospects. Perhaps he should have just said that is currently not an option we are looking at, or that there are currently no fighters available for lease etc...

But yah he should be questioned in the press about that.  Or perhaps all the pressure should be on the gov't to come up with a legitimate solution if interim fighters are appropriate.  Used F-18's from one of the countries switching over to F-35's could be looked at (Australia for example).

Yeah let's not hold him to too high a standard, right?  He should be intimately familiar with this file. I think it more likely he's just towing the line.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I hope he gets publicly blasted for that lease comment - that's a bald faced lie and he knows it.

Is the CDS lying?  I'm comfortable giving him the benefit of the doubt, but only he knows what he knows & doesn't know vs. what he says.  That said ...

... commerce is not his first calling.

... He's an army guy answering a question that he probably wasn't prepared for ...

He may not sign the contracts, but he's no longer just "an army guy" -- he's "the senior serving military advisor to the Government of Canada", so I'm going to go on a limb and say he should know about all the files he has to advise on, army files or not.

Looked at another way, what if the Minister or PM said the same thing?  They're not subject matter experts about procurement either, right?

 

[Kirkhill]

Is the CDS lying?  I'm comfortable giving him the benefit of the doubt, but only he knows what he knows & doesn't know vs. what he says.  ...

A point of view that is broadly applicable - north and south of the border.

 

[Quirky]

I'm so glad that our entire leadership, CDS included, is so well versed in this matter. I'm starting to think a pack of baboons would handle this better.

 

[MilEME09]

I'm so glad that our entire leadership, CDS included, is so well versed in this matter. I'm starting to think a pack of baboons would handle this better.

Welcome to the leadership promote and post created, the CDS may be a political appointment but I think he should independent from the government, not their lap dog. Maybe the CDS should be appointed by the standing committee on national defense, and can only be dismissed by a 2/3 majority vote on the committee.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Now from MND's mouth--maybe "interim" F-35As!

Canada looking at all options for new fighter jet: Sajjan

Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan says he's looking at all options when it comes to finding 18 fighter jets to bridge Canada into a new fleet to replace its aging CF-18 Hornets.

Sajjan announced last fall that Canada was entering talks to buy 18 Boeing Super Hornets to cover a "capability gap" created when the government changed how it counts the number of planes the country needs to fill its NATO and NORAD obligations.

But Boeing this spring initiated a U.S. Commerce Department complaint against Canadian aircraft manufacturer Bombardier, leading Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland to say in an open letter that Canada is reconsidering its Boeing procurement.

The trade dispute has raised questions about how the government will handle its fighter jet procurement.

In an interview with Evan Solomon, host of CTV's Question Period, Sajjan wouldn't rule out purchasing Lockheed Martin's F-35 fighter jets as an interim solution, in addition to considering it among the possibilities to fully replace the current fleet [emphasis added].

"Right now we are looking at many different options," Sajjan said.

"Keep in mind this all just happened. It does take time to … be able to develop some various options," he added.

"We are committed to making sure that we have this capability gap filled."

Tom Lawson, Canada's former chief of the defence staff, says the fact the government's new defence policy review said very little about fighter jets suggests "a retrenchment on a wrongheaded policy." The policy review said Canada would increase the number of jets it will buy, from 65 to 88.

"There really is no one except the government that believes that 18 interim fighters will be useful to Canada, let alone the RCAF [Royal Canadian Air Force],” Lawson told Solomon.

"This conflict that's going on with Boeing right now regarding the Bombardier issue provides them an opportunity to gracefully step back from that and go right to the competition [for the permanent fighter jet]."..
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-looking-at-all-options-for-new-fighter-jet-sajjan-1.3452019

Like bunch of chickens running around with heads cut off, frozen like deer in headlights...whatever simile.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Kirkhill]

> ;D  Lease the next 6 F35As off of the production line and operate them out of PAX Eglin  ;D >

 

[SupersonicMax]

Pax is not an operational base and they operate F-35B/C there.  No As. 

 

[Quirky]

Now from MND's mouth--maybe "interim" F-35As!

Like bunch of chickens running around with heads cut off, frozen like deer in headlights...whatever simile.

Mark
Ottawa

aka next governments problem, they are just in it for the pensions. Too chicken crap to make a decision.

Time for our guys to start scuttling our jets into the tundra.

 

[dimsum]

Now from MND's mouth--maybe "interim" F-35As!

That would make me giggle like a schoolgirl at the irony of it all.

 

[Kirkhill]

Pax is not an operational base and they operate F-35B/C there.  No As. 

Seen Max.  Since corrected to Eglin.  But, on further thought, how about Hill in Utah?  I believe it is flying operational F35As.  And they recently did a Forward Deployment to Mountain Home.  Cold Lake isn't too far away....

http://www.mountainhome.af.mil/News/Features/Article/810587/f-35s-test-combat-readiness/

 

[McG]

Let's get Bs for the interim, and then As for final replacement.  Then we can stick with the plan of buying 18 just to replace them.