U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[KevinB]

You're in cyberspace too chief, this is a public forum, much to your chagrin.  I don't care for your attitude, I don't need to be suggested to visit Iraq.  If you care to accept 9.9 out of 10, then your suggestions aren't worth the binary code they're embedded on.

Your missing the entire point -- you have a pre-concieved notion that Iraqi's are upset at what has happened.  I'm not trying to start a fight -- only to look at the fact that I am a primary source of data -- I have no reason to try to skew data or info here -- you dont pay my salary and the Cdn public will not influence what happens here despite several people holding theire breath till they are blue in the face.

 Your claiming data to suggest one line - and I am simply saying from my birds eye on the reconstruction side of Iraq, that the views and comments you are expressing are not valid.

This thread has been hi-jacked.

 

[medaid]

That's not a personal attack.  It just isn't, especially compared to the personal attacks I've endured.  You guys are completely unfair, completely unfair when it comes to behaviour and conduct.  I can't seem to figure out how to de-register from this site, so since you're looking to satsfy your compensatory urge to ban me could you please go ahead with that.  I want nothing to do with this forum. 

Thanks, it's been..... "real."

willsfarm,

  I think we've been quite fair with you. We have told you more then once that your beliefs and views are questionable for someone who has yet to back most of his statements up. I've read your PM, and frankly even in private conversation you strike me as someone who thinks they know more about the situations in the world, then the professionals who work in it. You'll have a hard time in the CF if that's your attitude, because frankly you don't know JACK. That was something everyone's been trying to tell you. They've tried it politely soo many time that they got fed up with it and just came out and said it. We've asked you to fill out your profile and identify yourself as to who you are, not your name, but rather that your background is and what you did for a living. You were too good to even do that.

  Go ahead, leave this forum. You will not be missed, and you'll be dismissed just as quickly. Please don't think you're the first one to come on this forum and spout off the things that you have for the past few days. You have some good points, but most others are clouded by personal views and views from those who have never served a day in their lives. I kept asking you if you've served in either the US Mil or the CF, and you never replied out in the open, but you did in the PM. Good on you, but it doesn't give credibility out here. It sure didn't give credibility to me, even if you were to post it up out here, your views would be dismissed. You want to know why?

    YOU ARE WAY OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE.

  For someone who has never served you sure have many opinions about the forces and how we, professional servicemen and women, no matter full-time or part-time, do things. I am by no means an expert in the forces, but I have served both as an NCM and as an Officer and the so called "Buzzwords" are things that I believe in and strive to achieve in my job every single day. Someone who has never experienced the camaraderie of service, and never understood the bond of brotherhood in service or under fire will NEVER understand what the service is like.

  You are a civilian looking into a world that you will NEVER understand. Just as I will never understand the world of corporate politics but I will not stride into an office of some CEO and tell him/her that their views on how some other company should handle their employee was wrong. I have never been there. I have never done that. I will never know.

    Good luck to you in your application. If you make it, hopefully you will change your mind in a few years of service.

 

[Danjanou]

That's not a personal attack.  It just isn't, especially compared to the personal attacks I've endured.  You guys are completely unfair, completely unfair when it comes to behaviour and conduct.  I can't seem to figure out how to de-register from this site, so since you're looking to satsfy your compensatory urge to ban me could you please go ahead with that.  I want nothing to do with this forum. 

Thanks, it's been..... "real."

You’re wish is our command. See how helpful and accommodating we can be.

[mod hat on]
For the record you’ve been banned  at your own request. As noted you were welcome to stay. We would have preferred you backed your arguments with some empirical evidence but hey whatever.

As I’ve stated anyone and any opinion are welcome here as long as they adhere to the guidelines. As seen the DS will impartially ensure that they are enforced for and by all irregardless of our personal beliefs and biases.  Too bad that is not the case on several other forums that have a diametrically opposed version of things. There you step out of progressive group think ( which often in out case is saying who we are and why we have a differing opinion on the WOT)  and you’re gone, no warning.
[/mod hat off]

 

[Foxhound]

Damn.  Sorry to see wilsfarm opt for that particular way out.  I was following this thread with some interest.  What I like about this site is that it gives everybody a chance to present their arguments as long as they remain within the realm of fact or, if not fact, opinion backed up by study.  I was looking forward to a good debate.  wilsfarm appeared to be studying at least, but when told he was not studying deeply enough, he chose termination rather than concession or acceptance.

I glean from what MedTech posted, wilsfarm is in the application process.  I do not wish him luck in his endeavor.  First of all,  from the very start he confused the military ideal of service with the political ideal of choice.  This is the same mistake that the USN NCO made in abandoning his service, country and family when he fled to Canada.  I would ask wilsfarm where will he flee to when he has the hard question put to him?  I do not like to think that the CF is accepting candidates who see their oath as less than binding.  So wilsfarm, I hope you wash out real soon.

Next, wilsfarm comes across as someone who is thoroughly indoctrinated in the "no child left behind" ideal of the modern educational system.  His decision to opt out of the debate rather than accept the possible failure of his argument indicates this.  He did come across as erudite and "educated' (whatever that means), but would only accept (and present) information from sources that he would seek, and would not accept sources unsolicited no matter how expert, as in the case of I6's arguments.  He was waiting to be validated by any other means, as in, "We'll give you a C+ for effort rather than an F for failure."  When that validation failed to materialize, he bailed.  This tells me that if his conception of the military does not match the reality (and it won't), he will pull pin and we may end up with another Francisco Juarez on our hands.

Back to the topic at hand, are there any recent developments concerning the fate of the last bunch of "refugee" deserters claimants?  Last news I can find is from Nov. '07 when it was reported that the SCC refused their appeal.

 

[geo]

Must remember that these servicemen were not conscripts who were dragged in "kickin n' srceaming" to do their time.  They were all VOLUNTEERS who willingly signed up, took the oath & took the pay.

They had the option of standing up for their beliefs, say heck no, I won't go & face the music.  There is a Lt in Hawaii who is doing that right now.  While I don't agree with his position, I can at least accept the strength of his conviction.

 

[1feral1]

Or are you all so jealous that you're not in Iraq as well that you it angers you when someone voluntarily opts out.

I read all what you posted throughout this thread, and the above quote sums things up pretty quick.

Definatly a hidden agenda.

Your opinion on Iraq appears to be very biased, no doubt fed by a one sided media, and bizarre mislead leftist views, with an anti US and anti war flavour of course.

There is more good going on in Iraq than bad, but bad news sells stories, and you feed off them.

As for this bloke being a coward and deserting, well thats his business. Its piss weak, but its his business.

All he has to claim that he is gay, or wants to harm himself, and he's out of the Army. He is making a political stance here against an unpopular war. 

No real soldier is jealous of another country's involvement in a war. What you are saying is just crap, and you are attempting to label us as some type of baby killing war mongering preying mantids.

Bans on this site are deserved, but you get a gold star.

No waddle off and preach your views elsewhere.

 

[Stryker_11A]

Me thinks there is more to this story than we are being told. A Chief Petty Officer is a senior non-commissioned officer rank with many years of service. His service on board aircraft carriers keeps him relatively out of harms way while deployed. Most of the military who have deserted and crossed the border into Canada seeking refugee status had either been to Iraq/Afghanistan on the ground or were headed that way. I don't agree with their desertion, but I can understand how overwhelming fear can grip the mind and make one make that decision. A senior NCO, on the cusp of retirement from the Navy, who will not be on the ground in combat deserting screams volumes. I have contacts at Norfolk, VA through my civilian occupation. I will look into this.

 

[TCBF]

Odds are, he did something naughty and came up here to avoid facing the music.  Everyone knows that Canada is a haven for criminals and terrorists.  If they found Adolph Hitler living in Prince George, it would take thirty years to deport him.

 

[Gimpy]

Odds are, he did something naughty and came up here to avoid facing the music.  Everyone knows that Canada is a haven for criminals and terrorists.  If they found Adolph Hitler living in Prince George, it would take thirty years to deport him.

It only took 2 years to deport Zundel 

Heres a very interesting story on the total number of deserters throughout the Iraq War and apparently only a small percentage is due to opposition to the war according to a spokeswoman. Also about 58% of Navy deserters just walked back in without coercion.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-03-07-deserters_x.htm

 

[TCBF]

It only took 2 years to deport Zundel 

A.H. had good lawyers back in the day (they wote the laws to lawfully create the Nazi state) - I'm sure he would have good ones now as well!

 

[the 48th regulator]

Alleged deserter living in Alberta arrested at Montana border crossing43 minutes ago

RAYMOND, Mont. - A man living in Alberta has been arrested by U.S. officials at a border crossing in Montana after being identified as a U.S. military deserter.

Leon Soup, 43, was taken into custody by U.S. Customs and Broder Protection officers at the Raymond Port of Entry on Feb. 10.

Officials say a name check disclosed that he was the subject of an arrest warrant as an alleged deserter from the U.S. Marine Corps.

Thomas Schreiber, a customs spokesman in Blaine, Wash., says Soup is a U.S. citizen who has been living in Alberta, and was seeking entry into the United States at the time of his arrest.

Soup has been turned over to the Sheridan County Sheriff's Office pending his handover to military prosecutors.

Copyright © 2008 The Canadian Press. All rights reserved.


dileas

tess

 

[Pte.Butt]

I have zero sympathy for this man. He signed a contract, took his oath, now he has to pay the consequences for deserting his commitment.

 

[geo]

All I can say is....
Good for him if he was going back to turn himself in - be a man and face up to your responsibilities.  If you want to say "heck no, I won't go - have your day in court and live with the consequences of your conviction"
If he was going stateside for a visit.... then he's an even bigger idiot than everyone thought he was!

Now.... He's "soap on a rope"

 

[Wookilar]

Given dude's age, I have to wonder how old this desertion charge is? Not that it matters really, but I'm just wondering how long he's been running?

Even in the Marine Corp Times, no mention is made of any particulars. Actually, they pretty much just cut and paste the AP report it seems.

(http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2008/02/ap_allegeddeserter_080214/)

Wook

 

[the 48th regulator]

porta decumana - rear gate

It was from this gate that soldiers convicted of serious crimes, such as desertion, were led out from the camp to be executed, likely by being stoned to death.

dileas

tess

 

[eerickso]

These modern punks VOLUNTEERED - and then got cold feet. 

And then they hear something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzWH7RjM7Jw

And then say to themselves WTF? I don't rememeber saying anything about oil and helping the rich in the oath that I took!

 

[geo]

And then they hear something like this:

And then say to themselves WTF? I don't rememeber saying anything about oil and helping the rich in the oath that I took!

They signed up while the US was already at war with AQ & Iraq.  They took the oath and they took the pay....
If they have a conviction that the war is wrong - FINE, stand up for your rights, have your say - do it in public even.
Go to trial and face a jurry of your peers. 
Running away to the north to start a new life as an illegal is NOT the way to do it.

 

[2 Cdo]

They signed up while the US was already at war with AQ & Iraq.  They took the oath and they took the pay....
If they have a conviction that the war is wrong - FINE, stand up for your rights, have your say - do it in public even.
Go to trial and face a jurry of your peers. 
Running away to the north to start a new life as an illegal is NOT the way to do it.

The high-lighted portion pretty much says it all! To do anything otherwise is dishonest and shows a lack of conviction.

 

[eerickso]

Yes, they sure did take an oath. In that oath it say something about domestic enemies.

 

[2 Cdo]

Yes, they sure did take an oath. In that oath it say something about domestic enemies.

Okay. :