Pick the right trade at the begining!

[niceasdrhuxtable]

I can understand wanting to join a red trade then doing a switch to the trade you want. I mean, a lot of people want to get in as soon as possible (myself included) but I guess to get what you really want you just have to wait. You know the old saying, Patience is a virtue (or as the military likes to say: "hurry up and wait"). Wouldn't it take a while to switch to the trade you want anyway? So you'd be waiting just as long for a transfer to the trade you want as opposed to applying to the trade at the beginning and waiting for spots to open up.

It's definitely not a very wise strategy as far as shaping your career path goes but I think a lot of people are under the impression that it's a very straight forward process with few obstacles or hurdles.

 

[aesop081]

I can understand wanting to join a red trade then doing a switch to the trade you want.

i'm french but i'm sure i express myself in english very well. An OT to an other trade is NOT your right. Its a competition. You apply and MAY or MAY NOT get accepted. The trade you are currently in MAY or MAY NOT let you out. Join a fucking trade you like and that you wont mind doing for 25 years. My old trade was red...i had to wait 11 years inorder to be able to OT to something else. Its not because OTs exist that you are entitled to one.

 

[kitrad1]

"It's not a policy.  Officially, they are not supposed to make that statement.

Unfortunately, there are recruiters who want to make the target; there are also people coming in the door who hear "you can ask for a remuster" and interpret as "you're entitled to a remuster".

I believe the CF needs "hidden shoppers" to wander through the CFRCs and report back on what happens - it works in retail to improve service and identify deficiencies."

A little amplification to the previous comments....so long as there are recruiters and recruits, there will always be someone to say that the faceless, nameless "recruiter or Recruiting Centre told me.." Sort of like the "Someone in the pay office told me ..."

First, when one is enrolled, there is a statement on the form (I believe that it is a CF 444) which states that they are being enrolled for occupation xxxx and that they further acknowledge that they have not been offered any other occupation. In fact, once they are in process, an applicant really has nothing to do with the recruiter anymore; their file is handled by file managers and their Military Career Counsellor (MCC). During the pre-enrolment briefing, when they go over all of the paperwork, they are advised that they have not been offered any other occupation. I have witnessed many pre-enrolment briefings where the applicants have been advised that if they think that they will enrol and then try to remuster, they might be in for a shock.

Second, recruiters are not assigned formal "targets". While CFRCs might be assigned their piece of the pie (the SIP), it does not flow down to the individual level. I know of no individual recruiter who is under any pressure to achieve assigned "targets"

There was a secret shopper program a number of years ago. Probably a good idea, however, I am inclined to believe that it is easier for some to blame the system rather than honestly say, " I just wanted to get in no matter what" At the end of the day, we are responsible for our own actions. Make a well informed career decision, ensure that you have  a realsitic understanding of what it is you are getting into and that you have realistic expectations.

 

[a78jumper]

I would be very leery about accepting a trade or classification on enrollment with the assumption you can OT or whatever later. I was enrolled as a MARS officer, and decided after my first summer of naval training at NOTC there was no way I was going to spend four years doing that let alone a career. Thus started three years of waffling, lies, deceit and manipulation while trying to get into something I could relate to and function as in the long term; certain naval staff officers at RMC and Venture seemed to take a perverse delight in messing around with the admininstrative process by which one was reclassed in those days. Really soured me on the Navy let me tell you, Sea Log was out of the question even though I was Sea Environment qualified by the time I was reclassed out of Phase IV MARS.  It had to do with the fact that MARS was hugely undermanned, Army Logistics was not , and then I proved more than competant at driving a ship; getting a "B" on Phase III was not a wise move in retrospect.  Believe you me it was no labour of love; I kept being told the only way out was to do well on my training, and in the end I did not even believe that. Some recruiter four plus years earlier had met his target though. I was screwed out of more than four months of seniority, but in the end I got what I had been asking three years for. 

 

[navy-nesop]

CDN Aviator is right,

OT is not a right, it's a privilege.  Think about this for a second.  In any other job you pay to get trained in a school, then you apply for a position and get hired if your resume is the best that they have to chose from.  If you made the wrong choice, tough luck.  You can return to school or do your job and hope you will like it some day.

In the military it's different.  You get to choose for the trade you want.  Of course we have different openings like any other businesses.  Maybe you want a certain job, maybe we don't need it.  This is where the problem occurs.  Some people think they can beat the system here.  Now realise that the military will send you on basic training, then if you need some language training, they will take care of that.  After that you go on your QL3 (basic MOC qualification).  Because we are trying to train many people, the system is over loaded, no problem, you still get paid to wait for your training.  Realise this people, you are useless the military until you are at lease QL3 qualify, for officer I'm not sure of the training, but I think it's a bit longer. Anyway...

Normally they would hire you after you have a qualification, but because of the nature of our job, they have to train you if they want people.  So after you reach that point they spent maybe over 300 000$ on you.  It's just a guest, I don't know the real figures, maybe someone can fill in here.  A bit over a year salary, clothing, paying instructors, overhead expenses, security checks...

So if you re-muster, it means they have to find another person to do the job, train them again....  When they hired you it's because your position was already missing somewhere.  So let's say you are a NESOP (my trade), you get trained and get a re-muster after your training.  It means that the guy we are missing on the ship will not show up as predicted and it's going to take maybe another 2 years before we can get it.

Now, please pick the right trade and stick with it..

this is navy-nesop, over

 

[X-mo-1979]

Pick the right trade from the beginning.
Nice topic title.
However for those of us who are not "blood" (meaning daddy was a SSM and you will be) or were raised around a army base,picking the right trade is kind of a moot point.How the heck did I know what trade I wanted to be,coming from a hick town never seeing a army guy before?Lets face is the army video's don't say "in the infantry you will be away from family for at least 9 months of the year""Followed by hours of drill pratice,enough mindnumbing drill to contemplate that there is a guy sleeping in a hotel making spec pay somewhere."Let's face it each video makes each trade look awesome to a civilian coming in.

The Aussies do what I think was called a Gap year,allowing you to look around trade to trade to see what interests you.We however show a video that describes armoured as "the monster garage" : and kids think its for them.Then when they get their very first taste of living in the woods,patrolling etc on basic they realise I hate this and want to work in an office.

So my main point is there is no way to know if you will like your trade,unless your a base brat or previous service.

Now it has been said that sometimes when your trade is red,you will not be able to OT.This is very true.However if you really want it bad enough release and re-enroll.I have had two friends get out and are now AVN techs,loving their jobs.

Basically you just have to guess at what you will like and try it out.If you dont like it release or OT and try again.

 

[aesop081]

x-mo,

Some people ( and alot of them come to this site) just pick any trade available simply because one might get them in the CF faster than another. This is stupid and wasteful. I beleive that those are the people targeted by this thread.

 

[ixium]

Most people have access to internet in some way shape or form. Theres tons of information avaliable on the internet about the ups and downs of military life.

navy-nesop, from what the recruiter told me theres an atleast 3 year wait on OT. Plenty of time to use the information you gained from the training.

 

[X-mo-1979]

x-mo,

Some people ( and alot of them come to this site) just pick any trade available simply because one might get them in the CF faster than another. This is stupid and wasteful. I beleive that those are the people targeted by this thread.

Seen.Yes very wastefull.Wait out for the trade YOU THINK you want.

 

[dimsum]

Here's another idea (granted this may not work for all trades):

Join a reserve unit and "try out" the trade.  Again, this may not work for all trades, or in very isolated locations where there aren't a lot of reserve units.  But, it'll get you in the military and if you try to Component Transfer, it's a TON easier than trying to OT out of a red trade.  I know of many people (me included) leaving the NAVRES MARS trade to others and had zero hassle (besides asking if I really didn't want to go Reg F MARS instead  ) on the CT process.

Plus, chances are you won't have to redo certain parts of your training (BMQ/BOTC, etc.) 

Just something to think about...

 

[navy-nesop]

ixium,

yes, 3 years on the job seem a long time, but in fact, it's about the time it takes, for a sailor anyway, to become proefficient in his/her trade.  So if you re-muster, you did not help anyone really.

This topic was intended more for those who want to re-muster as soon as their off BMQ.  They already know they don't want to do the trade they are in.  These people jam up the system for those that really need a re-muster and those that are trying to learn the trade they choose.

Recruiting is not perfect, but read and ask question in these forums before you make a decision.  There are some really good advice around, and you will learn a lot from them.  There is probably ways you could even spend some time with a person who do the job you want if you asked it. (Maybe!)  Don't show up at your local base saying I said that.  Ask the recruiting center.  They are there to help you.  Don't worry, you can't get in trouble for asking questions there ... you are not military yet.  LOL.

Happy new year to all...!

 

[Nemo888]

But the recruiter told me just go infantry and then if you don't like it you can do whatever you want,....

BWAHAHAHAHA >

 

[navy-nesop]

But there is so many movies out there about the army,

Is 'nt this the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....!

They never told me by joinning the navy I was going to have 4 to 5 hot meals a day, a warm bed, my laundry done for me and a fews days every two years in Hawai, Japan, Korea  ....

Nothing but respect for the army people..was a weekend warrior in 1992!

regards

 

[ixium]

This topic was intended more for those who want to re-muster as soon as their off BMQ.  They already know they don't want to do the trade they are in.  These people jam up the system for those that really need a re-muster and those that are trying to learn the trade they choose.

Yes, but you sign something stating that you have read the agreement that says you can't transfer untill after 3 years. Although I think I've read here about people being able to do an OT to a red trade during BMQ, but I may have been mistaken.

 

[Deleted member 9665]

Ok, here is my point Of view,

when I applied, in 2006, I had applied Res Driver first and Supply second, and after being around Here,  I had the privilege of talking to people who did both jobs. I got the "pros" and "cons" of their jobs and well...I was lucky to discover that I wanted more to go Supply and that's what I got.

Neverin a million year I could have gotten this info in a recruitement center. The web gave the Info I seeked. so people should be smart enough to take time and search about what could be their next 25 years profession. it is not that hard to find info. even for those people who doest not live near an CF facility.

I have one question about "red trades" are there some way to see the list of those trades besside going to CFRC??

thanks.

 

[niceasdrhuxtable]

I have one question about "red trades" are there some way to see the list of those trades besside going to CFRC??

thanks.

There's a link on the CFRG website that has an Excel table with all the trades in the CF, their PMLs, their actual manning levels and their colour coded status (green, amber, red).

I'll try to hunt it down when I go back to work on the 7th.

 

[axeman]

As a person who has done a remuster and component transfer . both after long streaches . 9 in the militia 8 in the Infantry now im doing my thing as a HT . i see that you are saying get all the facts before you sign the line . well saying thats all fine and dandy but what if , after a while you find yourself lacking that certain something that you joined for . I joined the reg force  Infantry because the militia  wasnt offering what i wanted and the  PPCLI was. well after doing that for numerous yrs  I came to realize  that i wasnt able to offer the best bang for the buck with me taking a slot  there . so i made a choice to try something else to find out where i could make a positive input . well im doing that and being pushed by my seniors to  a more senior role  and position as im where i want to be as opposed to where i signed up to be but  have found out  that i dont like. think about it by allowing remusters they allow a cross movement in positions a higher quality of life.ie a more positive  outlook . rather then some one getting out  .if you say get out , well then you have to hire another person and then force the CF to retrain  from scratch  another soldier/ sailor /airman. 

 

[ixium]

I don't think anyone here is saying that transfers are bad in anyway, its the people that sign up in a red trade thinking that after BMQ they will be able to easily switch to their choice trade .

 

[Meridian]

There's a link on the CFRG website that has an Excel table with all the trades in the CF, their PMLs, their actual manning levels and their colour coded status (green, amber, red).

I'll try to hunt it down when I go back to work on the 7th.

This one?

http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/careermatcher_en.aspx?bhcp=1

 

[navymich]

This one?

http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/careermatcher_en.aspx?bhcp=1

I think he means this one:

Here's the link for the Occupation Status Matrix (Red, Amber, Green) applicable for the 2008/09 VOT competitions: ftp://borden.mil.ca/cfrg/Bilingual%20Messages/ISS/Occ_Status_FY_07_08_All_Spring_b.xls