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Responses to "Co-op program called death sentence"

Interesting quote from the Prime Minister today:

"I believe that military service is the highest calling of citizenship," Harper told the young soldiers at a military graduation in Wainwright, Alta. (source)

It would seem he doesn't agree with the "death sentence" crowd. I can't recall being this impressed - or maybe even just "impressed" - with a PM in previous history.
 
I actually think the response is way too hard on the Windsor Star itself. All they did was report what was said - and then every day since, there has been a slew of published editorials, letters to the editor, etc all SUPPORTING the military and the local regiments, which they have happily published.

They've also sent out embedded reporters with us on exercise, done some great pieces on us, and generally been very military-friendly.

I actually think they've done us a HUGE favour by running that piece; they've gotten the debate way out in the open - now people in Windsor are getting to know about their own home-grown units. It's been overwhelmingly positive for us.

I think Army.ca shot the messenger here, and I'd like to see the anti-Star rhetoric scaled down or even retracted.

DG
 
I'd urge people not to overreact to this article or others like it, tempting though it might be.
What happened here was that a reporter (whose only knowledge of the military probably comes from Hollywood) dutifully regurgitated the drivel spouted at a public meeting by a group of anti-war protesters without taking the trouble to check whether or not what they were saying bore any resemblance to reality.
Rather than blasting the Star and the reporter (however justifiably) a better response would be to point out the more glaring errors and omissions in a reasoned and logical fashion and get the paper to print a rebuttal story, which in this case they did. With the added bonus that members of the military come off sounding like the reasonable folks that they (mostly) are and the peaceniks sound like the monster raving loonies that they are. Hopefully, the end result will be a slightly better informed journalist and public ... not to mention a better image for the CF.
I agree with RecceDG: the peace now crowd may have done us an entirely unintentional favour.
 
IMHO, we are always, well anyway I am, complaining about the media not "reporting" the news rather than creating the news by putting a slant on it. I would rather see as many sides to argument as are available, and make up my own mind, rather than what is in vogue now, where a "reporter" imposes his/her slant as though that was the only logical conclusion.

I haven't made up my mind on this particular article, but from the sound of it, the local populace and the paper, correctly, has corrected the "slant".
 
This such clownish crap in that article... When will all the hippies of the 60s hurry up and die? Lets be rid of their free loading, mind numbing and drug induced thinking already!
 
Love793 said:
Not that I am a great supporter of the left winged media in Canada, however I must defend the Windsor Star with this.  What wasn't placed in the post, was the fact that the very next day (with out being pushed for it) the Windsor Star ran a long rebuttal article, and a Opinion column calling the protesters immature morons (I'm para phrasing).  There has been very few letters in the Star since then supporting these protesters.  However as ironic as it is, these protesters have their right to make their opinion known, as we afford them that right to do so.

As the unit recruiter. and having my partner in crime over at CFRC being the one mostly in contact with the public regarding the coop course, I've been following this very closely, and I would have say the Star has been giving  rather decent coverage of this, and casting the CF in a very positive manner.  In fact interest in the coop course has shot through the roof because of this.  I must thank the Star for it's free advertisement, and the protesters for proving the venue for it.

Just my $.02.

Here's the op-ed piece. Not too bad of a rebuttal, but they could learn from us in how to write and present a rebuttal.

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/editorial/story.html?id=ff18714c-ad30-4d53-9973-b8df85792c98
 
GGboy said:
....
What happened here was that a reporter (whose only knowledge of the military probably comes from Hollywood) dutifully regurgitated the drivel spouted at a public meeting by a group of anti-war protesters without taking the trouble to check whether or not what they were saying bore any resemblance to reality.
...

Which makes that "reporter", like the vast majority of his (her?) confreres, nothing more than a bloody stenographer: a lazy, insufferable twit who then has the gall to ramble on, mindlessly, about freedom of the press as if he (she) has suddenly gone into the informing the public business.

The original Windsor Star article was not reporting, it was, maybe, second rate propagandizing.  The Star should be ashamed of itself.
 
RecceDG- Thanks, that was what I was trying to say earlier.

Danjanou- I was trying to find that yesterday, unfortunately there was problems with the DWAN server in Windsor.
 
I am not going to make  a comment about the article as a whole, because basically I would be a mindless robot repeating what everyone else said  ;).  However this particular comment which I bolded

Grade 11 Sandwich Secondary student Brittany Fleming said she decided to attend the meeting because of how strongly she disagrees with the program.
"It's too disciplined, too scary," said Fleming about the military

Grabbed my attention, and I am suprised no one else has jumped on it.  Not that the comment it self is surprising, it's just one more example of how lazy and unmotivated people of my generation are.  To think that it's scary that the military is "too disciplined"?  Showing up on time for work, probably requires more discipline than this girl is capable of.  One more example of wasted youth and the "me, me, me" society we have bred.  :p
 
Which makes that "reporter", like the vast majority of his (her?) confreres, nothing more than a bloody stenographer: a lazy, insufferable twit who then has the gall to ramble on, mindlessly, about freedom of the press as if he (she) has suddenly gone into the informing the public business.

I don't agree; in fact, I disagree rather strongly.

The story here is NOT "Army Program is a Death Sentence" but rather "Army Program CALLED Death Sentence [by local peace group]"

The Star didn't opine one way or the other on the program itself; instead, it concentrated on statements made by the leader of this group, and then amplified that the message had been taken at face value by quoting a local girl who drank the kool-aid. It also gave equal time to educators who liked the program, or who were at worst neutral.

In other words "Hey, look at this nutcase and what she is saying - and you kids are buying it!" It's not approval of the message, it is a call to arms. The community responded appropriately, and have been flooding the Star with letters of support ever since.

I'll say it again - THE STAR DID US A HUGE FAVOUR. I *live* in Windsor, this isn't an abstract issue for me. The rug has been pulled right out from underneath these "Women in Black" folks and the community is now more aware of us (and in a positive light) than ever before.

And I'll say this again too: the Army.ca editorial is WAY too reactionary and lumps the messanger in with the problem children. I really REALLY want to see the anti-Star language toned down or removed. They didn't deserve it, we're building a good relationship with the media here, and I REALLY don't want to see that go sour.

DG
 
Hatchet Man said:
Grabbed my attention, and I am suprised no one else has jumped on it.  Not that the comment it self is surprising, it's just one more example of how lazy and unmotivated people of my generation are.  To think that it's scary that the military is "too disciplined"?  Showing up on time for work, probably requires more discipline than this girl is capable of.  One more example of wasted youth and the "me, me, me" society we have bred.  :p

She is just to uneducated to realize what she is saying.  As for your comment on her not being able to make it to work on time: I would venture even farther and say that she is not looking for nor wants a job.  What there needs to be is a class in all grade that teaches students what is going on in the world, and about the CF.  IMO if we can educate the population on what we do, and how we play a important role in society; it will prevent stupid comments like the below.
Grade 11 Sandwich Secondary student Brittany Fleming said she decided to attend the meeting because of how strongly she disagrees with the program. "It's too disciplined, too scary," said Fleming about the military

Just my two cents
 
Typical.

  The so-called "Women In Black" made absolutely no effort to determine if the claims being made are even correct.  We seem to be living increasingly in a world where simply being loud and pushy trumps the ability to make a thoughful argument.  Hopefully the fact that the WIB don't seem to have much of a grasp of the issue will be widely reported.  The good news is that they've had their 15 minutes of fame.  I can't say I'm impressed that parents of potential co-op students are so easily spun ::)
 
RecceDG said:
I don't agree; in fact, I disagree rather strongly.

The story here is NOT "Army Program is a Death Sentence" but rather "Army Program CALLED Death Sentence [by local peace group]"

The Star didn't opine one way or the other on the program itself; instead, it concentrated on statements made by the leader of this group, and then amplified that the message had been taken at face value by quoting a local girl who drank the kool-aid. It also gave equal time to educators who liked the program, or who were at worst neutral.

...

I'll say it again - THE STAR DID US A HUGE FAVOUR. I *live* in Windsor, this isn't an abstract issue for me. The rug has been pulled right out from underneath these "Women in Black" folks and the community is now more aware of us (and in a positive light) than ever before.

And I'll say this again too: the Army.ca editorial is WAY too reactionary and lumps the messanger in with the problem children. I really REALLY want to see the anti-Star language toned down or removed. They didn't deserve it, we're building a good relationship with the media here, and I REALLY don't want to see that go sour.

DG

I don’t agree.

The article, reproduced in accordance with the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act, is below.

Just a few days ago journalists in the big leagues were trading comments in the Globe and Mail: national affairs writer Don Martin (I think) took front page feature writer Christie Blatchford to task for the fact (and it was a fact) that her reporting from Afghanistan, where she was embedded, was unbalanced.  Not good journalism, said Martin – propaganda fed to the public through an unwitting journalist/dupe.  Some, many said the balance Martin (I think) requires is the right thing when covering most stories but sometimes, and Afghanistan is one of those times the other side is not available – not if you want the journalist back alive.

It looks to me like Windsor Star reporter Dalson Chen is going to claim that he was embedded with the peaceniks (Women in Black) and it would have been too dangerous to do things like reporting on facts, easily obtained and verifiable facts.

Co-op program called death sentence 
Dalson Chen, Windsor Star

Published: Thursday, April 06, 2006

The local public school board's newest co-op program helps the Canadian military recruit high school students, says a concerned citizens' group.

"We don't look at this program as an opportunity -- we look at it as a death sentence," said Marilyn Eves of the anti-war group Women in Black. "It's not the school board's role to be procuring for the military."

Eves made the comments at a Wednesday meeting of the Greater Essex County District School Board, where trustees were presented for the first time with a new co-op program in partnership with the armed Forces.

Teacher consultant Peg Rooney said National Defence representative Cpl. Jason Olson visited all 15 of the board's secondary schools in March and informed students about the one-semester paid military co-op that begins in February 2007.

Olson said the program allows students to explore such career fields as infantry, armoured soldier, weapons technician, vehicle technician, mobile support equipment operator, supply technician, resource clerk, cook and musician.

"It's basically another opportunity for our students," Rooney said. "We provide the information to the students. They're allowed to make their own decisions.... We are not recruiting members for the reserves."

Rooney said Olson makes annual visits to high schools regardless of the co-op program.

But Eves, a retired teacher, warned the partnership will leave the board with blood on its hands. "What is the future for these kids?" she said. "They're going overseas to fight and some of them are going to die."

Eves said students will be lured to the program by its promise of pay, medical and dental coverage, and four credits toward their diplomas. "It's a huge enticement. It's an obvious bribe."

Pat Noonan, a retired teacher, said times have changed for the Canadian military and pointed to operations in Afghanistan.

Noonan said she's nervous about the career plans that the program brings to students. "We're putting them at risk," said Noonan, 75. "We're in dangerous waters."

Women in Black member Claire McAllister, 62, asked if the military co-op runs contrary to the school board's goal of teaching students peaceful resolution methods.

But director of education Mary Jean Gallagher argued that the program doesn't contradict the board's values, and has existed for years in other school boards. "There's fairly solid interest in this community in the military, so why wouldn't we offer that opportunity?"

Gallagher noted that the program's capacity is no more than 25 students, and students who enrol in any co-op program are free to make career choices outside their co-op field once the program ends.

"This program is career exploration.... They find out about the world of work," Gallagher said. "As enticing as it might sound, it comes with responsibilities and commitments."

Grade 11 Sandwich Secondary student Brittany Fleming said she decided to attend the meeting because of how strongly she disagrees with the program.

"It's too disciplined, too scary," said Fleming about the military. "They beat it into you so you don't know what you think anymore. You're not a person anymore. You're just a machine."

Fleming said she doesn't know what kind of response the program had at her high school, but she's sure there are students who will be drawn to it. "People who want basic things like money and health care will end up going for it. And I'm worried that it will happen to my friends."

© The Windsor Star 2006

It should have been Chen’s job to refute the entirely baseless suggestions by Eves that students in a short co-op programme would soon be headed overseas, into the jaws of death and yada, yada, yada.

Sure it gave some people in Windsor an opportunity to set the record straight but the damage was already done – see: zipperhead_cop’s #16, from yesterday.

I stick with my position that the Windsor Star has ignored whatever shreds of journalistic ethics might still be preached, if not often practiced, in Canada.

 
"People who want basic things like money and health care will end up going for it. And I'm worried that it will happen to my friends."


Somone doesn't want her friends to have basic things such as money and health care...  :crybaby:
 
I live in the Windsor area(LaSalle Represent!!!) and let me tell you, that story did way more harm to the WIB than to the co-op program. On the contrary, there have been many letters to the paper from people (especially relatives of military folks) who strongly disagree with their views and the way they are getting their message out. Also at least one opinion column by Gord Henderson that blasts the WIB. As for that kid shooting her mouth off, who would want that suck-ass brat in our military anyways? Too disciplined? Too scary? Sounds like a weakling anyway.
 
DG, I don't think it is reasonable to take an "end justifies the means" tact here.  I am also glad that there is some positive dialogue being generated, but the damaging silence is there.  It was an irresponsible article.  Lines like this one:

But Eves, a retired teacher, warned the partnership will leave the board with blood on its hands. "What is the future for these kids?" she said. "They're going overseas to fight and some of them are going to die."

If Eves had made the "blood on its hands" comment, it would have been in the quote.  That is the reporter creating that and ramping up impact of the half assed comments.  The whole lay out of the article is set up so that the idea comes out, a thin section of counter point is presented then about half of the article is shooting down the part in the middle.  It ends with the slacker child's useless comments. That is pure and simple bias. 
I would also be interested to see where the rebuttal article was placed.  Typically for the Windsor Star, the big smear makes front page headlines, and the eventual rebuttal is on B6.  How about if they decided to splash on the headline in two inch bold
"WINDSOR REGIMENT TRAIN FOR BABY RAPING ALLEDGED",
then go on to write an allegation from some half baked clown with no informed opinion, and took no steps at all to find out the truth, despite our fabulous "inroads" with them.  Despite being misinformed, let them go off for half an article, then wait a day to put in a rebuttal from the Colonel.  You know that would be damaging, and the stigma would linger, despite the slanderous inaccuracy of it.  Don't think for a heart beat that if it will sell one extra rag, they will print it. 
And don't even get me started on Gord Henderson. :rage:
 
Zipperhead_cop-  The rebuttal article was printed on A3 in the very next issue.  The article was as least long as the initial article, and as I posted already reflected well on the CF.  As for the editorial, it also reflected highly on the CF as have 90% of the letters to the editor following the initial article.  A hard copy of both can be found posted on the back of the WR RQMS door.

As for recruiting, the story has done wonders for interest in coop crse, and CFRC (Det) Windsor has been flooded with inquiries by both parents and students wanting to take part in the course.

Also unless your friends kid is planning on joining Hunter this summer, the chance of being coursed on BMQ is slim to nil.  Only one serial is being run for 31 CBG (as it stands now)  for unit earmarked for growth under LFRR Ph 2, and it hasn't yet been confirmed due to lack of avail instructors. 

Everyone else-

To reiterate RecceDGs request.  We in the Windsor Garrison, have developed a rather good relationship with the media in Windsor.  They are a integral part of the Rctg plans for all 4 Army units and probably HMCS Hunters as well.  By everyone here jumping to conclusions about this article, you're hindering everything.  As the Recruiter for the Windsors I must say that we have a hard enough time recruiting without p*ssing off the media. 

Every one is entitled to their opinions, and I support that, but it's a responsibility of everyone to ensure of the facts before forming a opinion.

So ends my frustrated tirade.

 
You and DG have done a good enough job defending the Star that you shouldn't be worrying. Even if they read this forum, they have a thick hide. They're used to critisism, they get it a lot. Everyone here is entitltled to their opinion, and as such, we'll censor no posts to make your relationship with the local rag more comfortable.
 
I have a question regarding all these rebuttals and support being printed by the Star.

Is any of it "official"? It seems to me, that whenever something like this comes out, it is our friends and families that jump to the front and support the CF. I'm sure that the Windsor Garrison has someone in a Public Affairs position.

Where is the official correction on this artticle (and others like it)?
 
Did anyone with that newspaper and I am using the term "newspaper" in a  general term and very loosely, even check to see what the co-op  students learn.
1) I did co-op way back when ( late 80s ) 88-89 school year, i worked in the highschool in the art department as the in house photograhy guy. I helped out in the photography class, does that make me  a highschool teacher now?
2) friends did co-op with the OPP and the local fire department does that make them police officers and firemen now?
3) one guy did a co-op term working on a farm, yes he is a farmer now but he has a degree in farm science
4) i taught on a co-op course, i always taught the same part of every recruit course, my trade side of the house pay and benefits, they were not ready  to jump on to aircraft and fly  to UN Mission after that term.

I guess no one told the paper that reg force soldiers do not jsut hop on the plane and hit the mud running and shooting the poor defenceless    terrorist. before they are sent to any mission they all go for refresher and other training as required. Maybe some one here can tell me I am wrong but i have not heard of any one walking in off the street and being in a combat zone the next day or next week.

that reporter is clearly lacking the understanding of what the Co-Op term offers to a person considering the military as a career or just as interest. Life skills, social skills, the fact that a kid can come back to school and say I did something I never thought i could do or given the chance to do. I never got to kill anyone, or be a mindless robot, maybe i missed that session of my basic training.

I had more fun on my basic training time then I did at any other time in the army,  7 years, i learned more about myself and my limits i thought i had, and learned to forget what my  limits were.  I had to measure up.

I will be the first to admit I was scared during part of my training, geranade training scared me, I never realized i was going to be throwing the real thing,  i had it in my head i was going to be throwing the training ones like everything else was training rounds. I threw the real thing, and they went bang and boom, mud and dirt, bits of metal flew the air and it was great fun looking back but it was scary.

I guess the reporter never thought to do any research like talk to a Co-oP  person on the army side of the house, got the quotes from the peace freaks, they are the experts afterall on things green. everytime I see a peace protest sign i want to throw gernades at them.

Bomb greenPeace, feed a whale
 
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