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A Deeply Fractured US

https://mobile.twitter.com/greg_doucette?lang=en

This attorney is collecting videos of alleged police brutality from the recent protests. His theory is that it isn't just a couple bad apples

Some of the cases which stuck out to me
-cop appearing to randomly shoot rubber bullets at vehicles passing by on a busy street.
-older woman with her daughter who appears to have had a some kind of round shot at her inside her vehicle as she was filming. Broke her phone and injured her hand.
-cop shooting  rubber bullets at people then singing the team america theme song.

Not super graphic, concerning for other reasons.
 
People ignoring curfew is a problem for police. Just wait until this spreads to Toronto.
 
tomahawk6 said:
Just wait until this spreads to Toronto.

And elsewhere,

List of George Floyd protests in the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_Floyd_protests_in_the_United_States

List of George Floyd protests outside the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_Floyd_protests_outside_the_United_States

Humphrey Bogart said:

Update:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/05/buffalo-new-york-police-officers-suspended-shoving-man-ground/3153626001/
 
Jarnhamar said:
https://mobile.twitter.com/greg_doucette?lang=en

This attorney is collecting videos of alleged police brutality from the recent protests. His theory is that it isn't just a couple bad apples

Some of the cases which stuck out to me
-cop appearing to randomly shoot rubber bullets at vehicles passing by on a busy street.
-older woman with her daughter who appears to have had a some kind of round shot at her inside her vehicle as she was filming. Broke her phone and injured her hand.
-cop shooting  rubber bullets at people then singing the team america theme song.

Not super graphic, concerning for other reasons.

Like a proud Dad, I've watched 18 year old soldiers scold much older, and more experienced, policemen on their violation of the use of force principles.

None of us are perfect especially when we're exhausted and p*ssed off, which emphasizes the need for good training, high quality leadership and continuous overwatch for those deployed, sometimes in small and exposed teams, in highly stressful situations.
 
>Falling back on your snowboard and hitting your head, isn't quite the same thing

No.  The point, if it wasn't clear, is that a fall backwards is easy to initiate, difficult to break (unless you're already folding at the waist), and difficult to finish without risk of serious injury.  That it was an accident.

>And then have that same group continue on their way, as you lay there bleeding profusely from the ears.

Be reasonable.  The two guardsmen who rendered aid were part of that group, and one of the two officers was clearly pausing to do something other than walk by.  And what's the general principle?  Everyone in the combined team sticks to his assigned role and responsibilities, or everyone just decide for himself what needs to be done at any point in time?
 
Crowd control seems to try and accomplish one or both of two goals:  effect arrests and/or disperse the crowd and clear the area in response to an emergency order.  Pushing somebody down and then walking past them seems to accomplish neither.
 
I am just going to add small unrelated point here, Brad: If you snowboard without a proper helmet, you deserve all the cracked heads you get.

Just sayin'  :not-again:
 
tomahawk6 said:
People ignoring curfew is a problem for police. Just wait until this spreads to Toronto.

Torontonians are all in bed by 8:00 pm. Montreal on the other hand ...

;D
 
As Trump blames antifa, protest records show scant evidence

...

President Donald Trump has characterized those clashing with law enforcement after George Floyd's death under the knee of a Minneapolis police officer as organized, radical-left thugs engaging in domestic terrorism, an assertion repeated by Attorney General William Barr. Some Democrats, including Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, initially tried to blame out-of-state far-right infiltrators for the unrest before walking back those statements.

There is scant evidence either is true.

The Associated Press analyzed court records, employment histories, social media posts and other sources of information for 217 people arrested last weekend in Minneapolis and the District of Columbia, two cities at the epicenter of the protests across the United States.

Rather than outside agitators, more than 85% of those arrested by police were local residents. Of those charged with such offenses as curfew violations, rioting and failure to obey law enforcement, only a handful appeared to have any affiliation with organized groups.

Those charged with more serious offenses related to looting and property destruction – such as arson, burglary and theft – often had past criminal records. But they, too, were overwhelmingly local residents taking advantage of the chaos.

Social media posts indicate only a few of those arrested are left-leaning activists, including a self-described anarchist. But others had indications of being on the political right, including some Trump supporters.

The president has tried to portray the protesters and looters with a broad brush as "radical-left, bad people," ominously invoking the name "antifa," an umbrella term for leftist militants bound more by belief than organizational structure. Trump tweeted last Sunday that he planned to designate antifa as a terrorist organization.

"These are acts of domestic terror," Trump said in a Rose Garden speech Monday, moments after heavily armed troops and riot police advanced without warning on the largely peaceful protesters across the street from the White House.

Barr, put in charge of organizing the police and military response, activated the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force last weekend to target protest organizers.

"The violence instigated and carried out by Antifa and other similar groups in connection with the rioting is domestic terrorism and will be treated accordingly," Barr said in a statement issued Sunday.

There have been violent acts, including property destruction and theft. Police officers and protesters have been seriously injured and killed. But federal law enforcement officials have offered little evidence that antifa-aligned protesters could be behind a movement that has appeared nearly simultaneously in hundreds of cities and towns in all 50 states since Floyd's death.

The AP obtained copies of daily confidential "Intelligence Notes" distributed this past week to local enforcement by the Department of Homeland Security that repeat, without citing evidence, that "organized violent opportunists - including suspected anarchist extremists - could increasingly perpetrate nationwide targeting of law enforcement and critical infrastructure."

"We lack detailed reporting indicating the level of organization and planning by some violent opportunists and assess that most of the violence to date has been loosely organized on a level seen with previous widespread outbreaks of violence at lawful protests," the assessment for Monday says.

...


https://apnews.com/20b9b86dba5c480bad759a3bd34cd875
 
Whoah! Whoah! Whoah!  A Curfew in Montreal !!!!!!

You want riots? You want revolution? You want civil war?

There isn't enough equipment in the CAF to make that happen.  ;D


Anecdote here: My wife is from Hamilton (yes, Ontario). When I lived at my parents home, we used to live in the north of Montreal. So, the first time my (then future) wife came to visit for the week-end, she wanted to take in a movie downtown. As per her choice, we went to the 18:15 showing (in Montreal, we would call that the kiddie show), then went for a bite and, at around 22:00, we are making our way back home on the Decarie expressway. She looks across the divider and it's like rush hour traffic going the other way, so she asks "where are all these people going?" Downtown for the evening I say, to get there before 22:00 or 23:00 on a week end is just not in, I say. You should have seen the look on her face.

In the end, it turned out OK - I even managed to get her to sit down for supper at home at a reasonable 19:00 to 19:30 time frame, but it took quite a few years.  :nod:
 
Interesting turn of events:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8394057/amp/Buffalo-Mayor-says-75-year-old-man-shoved-ground-police-agitator.html?__twitter_impression=true

https://twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/1269372937875963905?s=20
 
If he was using an app to skim radio frequencies or anything else off the cops then they are justified in pushing him back.
 
CloudCover said:
Interesting turn of events:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8394057/amp/Buffalo-Mayor-says-75-year-old-man-shoved-ground-police-agitator.html?__twitter_impression=true

https://twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/1269372937875963905?s=20

Interesting for sure. However, it doesn't look like the man was the epitome of technical competence.
 
MilEME09 said:
If he was using an app to skim radio frequencies or anything else off the cops then they are justified in pushing him back.

No it doesn't.  That's the same logic that people use to defend the Police involved in George Floyd's death.  It's why we are in this mess in the first place. 

If you are going to arrest someone, arrest them, don't  bust their skull all over the pavement, then not provide first aid to them and treat them like a piece of trash.





 
Just suppose he had pulled out a gun and shot 3 officers leaving 2 dead and one clinging to life....you'd be bitching about "how could they let a threat get so close?  You just don't like the outcome so you fill yourself with unjustfied outrage at it.
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Just suppose he had pulled out a gun and shot 3 officers leaving 2 dead and one clinging to life....you'd be bitching about "how could they let a threat get so close?  You just don't like the outcome so you fill yourself with unjustfied outrage at it.

::)

I've seen you be obstinate in your support for LEOs before, but this post just takes it to a whole new level.

What's next, do allow police the use of force just because someone comes within 9mm range of them?
 
Hey, I've said this was badly done right from the start.....i just tire of the double standard being shown here.  If that man hadn't of tripped, and the shove was just a shove to move him out of the way, Mr. Bogart would be singing about how well restraint was shown.  The result sucks, the whole interaction should have been different, but the bottom line is, under normal interaction, a push out of the way does not result in a hospital visit.
 
Humphrey Bogart said:
No it doesn't.  That's the same logic that people use to defend the Police involved in George Floyd's death.  It's why we are in this mess in the first place. 

If you are going to arrest someone, arrest them, don't  bust their skull all over the pavement, then not provide first aid to them and treat them like a piece of trash.

Absolutely fair, however we don't know some details, for example what if there are designated first aiders in that group of officers? IE those two NG that stopped may of been medics or atleast designated first aiders, so SOP may of been keep moving and let them do their job.

Did the use to much force to push him away? Probably, but the gentleman was also right up in their face at one point. I am not a LEO expert and won't try to be. However is there even a chargeable offense if he was trying to skim radio frequencies? If not pushing him back would of been the best option.

Both sides are getting worked up and agitated.
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Just suppose he had pulled out a gun and shot 3 officers leaving 2 dead and one clinging to life....you'd be bitching about "how could they let a threat get so close?  You just don't like the outcome so you fill yourself with unjustfied outrage at it.

Wrong Bruce and it just shows you don't understand why so many people are upset right now.  You just don't get it and you don't want to get it.

None of the Police Actions so far have done anything but escalate the situation. 

Read Sun Tzu:

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

The Police and Political Masters just don't get it.  Poor choice of tactics and poor strategy.
 
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